“I DON’T CARE! I SHOULD HAVE HIT YOU!”

shame

“Dear PoPville,

I was on my way to work with morning when this speeding SUV veered into the bike lane on Columbus Circle by Union Station, coming within a foot of sending me to the ER. I went up to the car at the stoplight and politely asked the driver to please be mindful of cyclists, at which point the driver, an older gentleman in his late 50s, screamed through the window “I DON’T CARE! I SHOULD HAVE HIT YOU!”

So seeing as though I likely have no legal recourse, public shaming is all that’s left.”

100 Comment

  • “Blessed” indeed.

    • My working theory? Any Greek affiliation on your car equates to a total douchebag – on and off the road. I haven’t been proven wrong yet.

      • At first I had no idea what either Woodridge or Anonymous 12:38 were talking about. Then I looked more closely and saw that the license plate says “BLESSED” at the bottom and “Phi Beta [something]” at the top.
        .
        I did some googling and it looks like this is Phi Beta Sigma, which is a historically black fraternity founded at Howard.
        .
        We don’t know the OP’s race (or gender, for that matter), but I think the racial dynamics of D.C. can make confrontations particularly fraught when they occur between people who happen to be of different races.

        • HaileUnlikely

          Unfortunately agreed, and I’d also add that if there is a substantial age difference between the parties, that may further complicate the dynamics of the interaction.

    • Many folks use the guise of religion to pretend they’re not worthless assholes.

    • Of course drivers should mind cyclists, and of course it’s good that the OP was unharmed.
      But maybe… approaching a car in traffic at a stoplight and politely reminding the driver to “be mindful of cyclists” is perceived as an aggressive power play.

      OP was in the right, and went looking for a confrontation. What did they expect? If someone approaches my car when I’m at a stoplight, just to tsk-tsk me, that’s a situation where I cannot physically get away. I don’t know you, I don’t know what you’re capable of. I might lose my cool, too. Even if I was in the wrong – people get defensive when they feel backed into a corner.

      Don’t want to criticize OP or cyclists, I know there are a lot in this forum. We all need to share the roads. Glad nobody was hurt, sorry the driver reacted poorly.

      • Wow, yeah – I can see how that whole situation would be totally scary for you in 2000 lbs of metal with locked doors and fast acceleration and speed. That mean bicyclist on an open bicycle that can’t really speed away anywhere and almost got hit by you is TOTALLY the threat here.

      • You think someone in a big car was intimidated by a cyclist? Why be an apologist for an asshole?

      • You might lose your cool because you “can’t get away”? What are you, an anxiety disorder sufferer? If they admonish you and you were wrong, just say sorry.

      • You “cannot physically get away”…. in a car? That’s running? And could easily run over and kill the cyclist? I would say if a driver nearly hits someone then they shouldn’t be shocked when that person says WTF, politely or no. Arguably, the driver “went looking for a confrontation” by driving dangerously. To use your words, “What did they expect?”

      • As a cyclist, I often would like a driver to know they did something scary they maybe didn’t realize, but rarely is that possible. I (not a confrontational person) would like to know if I’ve caused a near miss as a driver (something I’m scared of doing). Is it so bad to want to put a human face on the situation? I absolutely understand that some people have this aggressive response to being called out, but people should behave better than that.
        .
        I’ve only talked to a near-miss driver as a cyclist once. This was because the person who had nearly hit me had pulled into the bike lane and to drop off her husband (an older gentleman), so I was face to face with the exiting passenger where I’d hard-braked to a stop at their bumper. And I wasn’t proceeding because I was literally shaking from the close call. He looked at me like, ‘what are you doing there.’ I tried to say, “Hey, I don’t know if the driver saw me, but I was in the bike lane and was almost hit. Could you please ask her to make sure to check to her blind spot when entering the bike lane?” Again, I’m petrified of conflict, and thought I was polite (I was also distraught, shaking and almost crying). I got absolutely SCREAMED at in a lengthy tirade, mostly about bikers in general. So nasty, and also the gem “…THAT’S WHY THEY CALL IT A BLIND SPOT.” Um, no it’s not. The wife stared straight forward and would not make eye contact. I’m sure her husband is a picnic; his behavior here was very poor, like the driver in this story. I was even more upset after getting screamed at, but I guess I hope the driver (and maybe even the husband) will check their blind spot or otherwise be more careful when entering the bike lane in the future.

      • I get you, but there’s a big difference between a driver getting defensive and cursing at the cyclist when confronted versus a driver yelling “I don’t care! I should have hit you!” I get the former a lot when I politely tell people to watch out, the later though- oof.

        Also, the cyclist isn’t necessarily looking for confrontation. Perhaps the driver didn’t even see the cyclist (likely the case), so the cyclist is just bringing this incident to his attention so he can be more alert in the future. I see nothing wrong with this.

      • Nerrrrrrd has the mentality of most, lets just not say anything to hurt anyone’s feelings. When my child and wife were hit in the crosswalk (60% across, 2 other people in crosswalk) the woman in front of the police said… ” I didn’t think they would go”. The police officer was dumbfounded. I did all I could not to punch the 70 old lady.

        Some say the perception is what it was back in the day still holds true. If no one gets told their wrong, are they? No tickets, no reprimand, no changes…

      • I pulled up to a car this Sunday that was consuming 90% of a bike lane on T st before 14th and asked the driver why he was in the bike lane. He said, “what’s a bike lane?” I said that the solid white line marked a lane for bikes. He said, “I don’t see it.” Then, “Oh! I see that line. I was wondering what it was. Ok, good to know.” VA plates, age in the late 60’s or early 70’s man. He stopped driving in the bike lane.

        Another really common one for me is the, “It’s illegal to bike on the road!” yelled at me by almost universally young women, like under 20, in newish cars. When I pull up, they say, “ride on the sidewalk!” My operant model is that when the conventional status implications of cars and driving are ignored by someone on a bike, a beat up car, or a goofy car, it enrages drivers who have invested heavily in placing well in the status system.

        • My mom was once stopped by a cop in Florida who told her it was illegal to bike in the road. A cop. I don’t know where people get that idea. I mean, I don’t particularly like biking in the road, but only because it’s scary, not because I’m doing something illegal.

      • How about when this happens to you, you just say, “You’re right – I’m sorry. I will be more careful.” By the way, I think that apologizing and stating that the person is right is disarming, and transformative.

  • Sorry about your close call. We all should follow the road rules and be respectful. I don’t own a car or a bike, but as a pedestrian I’ve been told the same thing by drivers and cyclists when I’ve been almost hit in a crosswalk and have indicated my displeasure. The blame rests with the driver here, but I’d be careful confronting folks, even to give a friendly admonishment. I’d guess that people who don’t care about staying out of the bike lane probably don’t care about cyclists or what they have to say about anything? Only once have I received an apology from a driver who almost swiped me in a crosswalk. But that’s because he was a cab driver and saw me take a photo of his plate. He drove around the block and came up on me slowly, and I was afraid, but he just shouted, “I’m sorry I almost hit you,” out his window. Not sure if he was sincere or whether he wanted to dissuade me from reporting his driving to the cab company. I accepted the apology and didn’t make any report.

    • I was crossing New Hampshire and Ingraham this morning and came within about a foot of being hit in the crosswalk. I yelled at the driver, and both he and a passenger got out of the car and started threatening me. They were trying very hard to provoke me to do something. They left their car parked in the northbound NH lane. It was quite the escalation. Be safe out there people.

      • I was nearly hit once in a crosswalk (I had the light, he didn’t even slow down) so I slapped the guy’s car as he wizzed past out of frustration and general “WTF, man?.” He was in a big enough hurry to nearly kill me, but he wasn’t too busy to come back around and follow me for two blocks shouting really foul abuse out the window, get out of his car at a corner, and shout some more in my face. I escaped by just keeping walking and ignoring him (lots of people saw him throw a fit, which probably helped), but it was scary and I did indeed start to think he might have a gun, or would follow me home, or the like.

        • Ha! I saw this exact thing play out a while ago at 13th and PA. the guy who got out of the car was scary!

      • Unfortunately yes. In the heat of the moment it’s really hard, and I’ve even broken this rule, but the fact is you never know what people are going to do. 99 percent of the time confrontation’s just not worth whatever grief you’ll get.

        • I’d say that 99 percent of the time is a big exaggeration. I’ve (politely) admonished drivers who nearly hit me, and they’ve always been a little taken aback but receptive. Yes, things can go wrong, but it’s okay to stick up for yourself. Especially when, in my experience, the drivers aren’t aggressive; they’re just not paying attention for cyclists.

      • It’s true that confronting motorists who do stupid/silly shit can be hazardous, but sometimes a memorable incident is the only way that these drivers will ever get the message. Discretion is often the key here.

        One time, I was involved in an incident where a driver ran a light, nearly hitting several pedestrians (I smacked his car)… He then got way out of control, yelled that he should have hit me (and several other pedestrians), got out of his car… and then exercised some discretion of his own when he realized he was moving toward a throwdown with an angry mob of pedestrians who were all very unhappy with him.

        Disclaimer: This was one of three times I’ve had people get out of their cars in response to my complaints. A fourth guy swerved his car at me, presumably for looking at him funny…

  • “So seeing as though I likely have no legal recourse…”

    Well, you do have a pair of keys. I’m sure there’s something you can do with those.

    • Use them to gouge one’s eyes out to avoid reading stupid comments like this?

    • Tom

      LOL I was thinking the same thing. “So you’re saying I have no LEGAL recourse… got it… *wink wink, nudge nudge,* read you loud and clear.” Of course, the practical side of me says such a move might get you in more trouble than it is worth, but still—a boy can dream.

    • Let’s not encourage this, please. You’re encouraging someone to do something that might result in harm to them. The guy is a dick for yelling that. But don’t go keying every person who inadvertently cuts you off. It happens. I’ve been pushed into the bike lane driving many times by WMATA bus drivers or other large trucks. I try to quickly look before swerving but sometimes your instincts take over to swerve to keep from getting hit.

      Retaliation is silly. Call the cops, report the driver, be thankful you’re okay and move on with your day. Better for your mental wellbeing to not let dickheads ruin your day.

    • It’s not often that I’m shocked by a comment here, but… I’m shocked. And horrified. And really hope this one gets you banned.

  • But he drives a Lexus, he’s far too important to care about cyclists.

  • I’ve gotten quite a few apology faces/waves for close calls while on my bike–usually in the circumstance where someone didn’t check the bike lane before pulling over or pulling into a driveway and I yelled something to alert them that I was there (like “hey” or “whoa”). I like to hope those folks will look first next time.

    I got polite excuses when I requested that my Uber driver please not pick folks up in the L St cycle track (he was picking me up). Sigh.

  • Anonjmous

    Are the MPD commenters still active here? At what point would it cross the line of a criminal threat of bodily harm? Would MPD actually take that seriously, especially if I had helmet camera video of it?

    • It would not cross the line at this point.

      • Imagine this scenario: I’m swinging a sledgehammer around and nearly hit someone with it. The person tells me to watch out and I respond “I should have hit you with it”. And that’s not illegal?

        • Threatening violence is serious. If you threaten to beat up a significant other, I think that’s at least verbal abuse.

          While biking once, a driver missed me by an inch or two, when I confronted him, he said “DID I HIT YOU??” I wondered if I had aimed a gun at him and said “DID I SHOOT YOU??” if he would find that to be acceptable.

        • No, that’s not illegal. It’s in the past and he didn’t hit you with it. Illegal would be “FU, I didn’t hit you with it, but I will now…”

          • So I should reply “I should have shot you and all your loved ones” and it wouldn’t be illegal? As long as I keep it in the past tense?
            Sounds so stupid only a lawyer could defend it. It’s a threat.

          • A threat to…hit you in the past? Come on!

          • The he ought to have in the past… and will in the near future. Unless you think he was saying that he should have hit me previously, but now would totally behave.

  • Except it’s not even public shaming since there’s no identifying info in the post or the photo. So I guess it’s just a reminder to be mad about something. Watch your ass because you’re in real danger out there. Stay angry and afraid, folks.

  • Some of these incidents, the offended person appears to want their ego stroked a bit by “confronting” the offender and “telling him/her off” as opposed to just recognizing that it was a mistake, and it was not intentional or some some personal attack against them.

    The late 50s gentleman probably was stressed out enough just driving through DC period and it does get tricky as far as staying in your lanes around this area of Union Station where there are turning lanes, bike lanes, cab drivers etc and the last thing he probably wanted at that point is to be yelled at for making an obvious mistake.

    • If you can’t handle the stress of driving in DC without hitting someone then you shouldn’t drive in DC. I mean that seriously. It’s not an excuse.

      • It is not an excuse, it is reality. Traffic patterns change, people get confused, mistakes happen. I see plenty of people way out of their element driving all the time and when I pass them to see who is behind the wheel, I instantly kinda calm down if its an older person because I recognize whats at play here….

        • So it’s OK with you if an older driver kills a cyclist because they were just confused?! Some people just shouldn’t be driving (and not always because of age). The sooner people realize that, the fewer innocent people will die in traffic accidents.

          • That is not what I said nor what I mean. The driver made a mistake.

          • I’ve made mistakes while driving. I don’t get mad at the people who point them out. I apologize for my mistake and take a hard look at why and what I need to do to fix it. I don’t think that’s too much to ask from anyone driving a car.

          • I would actually appreciate someone pointing out a mistake like that. Otherwise, I might not realize I’d done it, or be careful not to do it in the future. Not everybody is crazy when someone points out they’ve made a mistake. As for this guy, I’m more concerned about a guy with this level of anger issues driving than someone who might make mistakes.

      • Agreed, jerkforthis.

    • I think they might be a DC driver based on the plates?

      • He still could be out of his element in that particular area of the city. I haven’t been over to SW in a few years and with all the change and growth, I know for sure that I am out of my element on that side of town and may/may not recognize the traffic patterns right away, especially the bike lanes if you arent really looking out for them

        • It still doesn’t matter. If you can’t comfortably drive then don’t drive. Their is zero reasons to drive in that area of DC unless you specifically choose to drive. If he doesn’t like to drive in crowds or is uncomfortable driving outside his normal route then he could have parked the car and taken Metro, any Metro Bus, the Circulator, BikeShare, walked, hired a peti cab, hailed a regular cab, used the Uber App. Their is no excuse for nearly hitting someone and then threatening them. He made a mistake as a grown man. He can own it. We’re talking about a 50 year old. He’s still able to function in society at 50. I’m on the downward slide to 40 and I’d like to think I have more then 13 years of being aloud out in polite society before people start treating me as a geriatric.

          • Agree, these comments are acting like this guy is in his 90s, not his 50s. In the most flattering light, this guy is an oblivious driver who also seems unstable. And that’s giving him the benefit of the doubt when it is just as likely he’s an intentionally aggressive asshole.

          • HaileUnlikely

            There is a vast body of research showing clearly that drivers make more mistakes in less unfamiliar places than in more familiar ones. That is not unique to this driver, it is a feature of being a human. The mechanism by which a person gains experience doing something is by doing it, which necessarily entails doing it while in a state of having had less experience before each instance of doing it than after. If you can “comfortably” drive in a completely unfamiliar place on your first try it is not because your driving is superior but rather because your self-awareness is inferior (i.e., you are comfortable when you should not be).

          • HaileUnlikely

            p.s. I agree that threatening the cyclist is wrong. I just disagree with your judgmental and oblivious statements regarding preconditions for driving.

          • Anonjmous

            You can compensate by planing in more time and being more cautious in a new area. You can’t compromise by putting people at risk more.

          • HaileUnlikely

            Anonymous – I agree. I’m admittedly giving this individual the benefit of the doubt without having any idea what the hell actually happened, but a lot of times when people make mistakes in traffic, the thought process isn’t, “I don’t understand how traffic works here, so f*ck it, I’m just going to plow through,” but rather that they think they understand how it works and proceed accordingly, but unfortunately, were incorrect about how it works.
            .
            The first time I walked in Dupont Circle, I saw a pedestrian signal on the far curb and walked right out into oncoming traffic. It was an innocent mistake. I was not in a hurry. I was not actively trying to risk my life, or trying to beat oncoming traffic. I saw a signal that said “WALK” and thought (incorrectly!) that it was the signal for me. Lo and behold, there was yet another signal on the 2-foot-wide island that pedestrians are supposed to stand on, and that one said DON’T WALK. I didn’t see that one. I admittedly wasn’t looking for it. The possibility that there might be one signal to cross the first two lanes (and stand on a 2-foot wide island in the middle of traffic), and then another signal to finish crossing, had never even entered my stupid little mind. Sure, in that case, the maker of the mistake and the party at risk were the same, but that’s just a happy coincidence. The cognitive processes behind the mistakes aren’t any different when the maker of the mistake is a driver than when it is a pedestrian.
            .
            On a somewhat related note, the engineer who signed off on the design of the circle in front of Union Station should be taken out back and shot. It’s an optimization problem gone completely awry, where somebody attempted to minimize the risk function but accidentally maximized it instead.

          • Anonjmous

            So you might be apologetic to the drivers you just stepped out in front of, thank them for being alert enough to not run you over, and then be more cautious in future areas that you’re not very familiar with?
            I don’t think anyone would write to popville on that. Wait, I take that back.

          • HaileUnlikely, my point might not have made sense. I was trying to comment on how must of the above comments were saying ‘hay cut this buy a brake. he’s 50 and driving. he’s so stressed and old and feeble.’ And what I was trying to say is: This dude is an adult. He’s not a feeble old man who needs a pardon. He made a mistake. He can own up to it and people can treat him as an adult and expect him to act like one. Adults make mistakes. But they don’t double down on them by acting like a bigger jerk.

          • HaileUnlikely

            Basically agreed. However, I think you greatly overestimate the ability of humans to generalize a lesson learned from one very specific incident (in my case, failure to notice that there was a walk signal on the island in the middle of the road and it displayed a different message than the one on the far curb) to a vast array of dissimilar mistakes in all sorts of other environments. Making innumerable discrete (non-fatal) mistakes, learning from them, and building up our mental libraries of “don’t do that again” is how we learn and improve ourselves. But the human mind isn’t that great at generalizing lessons from one specific scenario to another completely dissimilar scenario. Your logic would lead one to believe that anybody who has ever been surprised by a car they failed to notice in their blind spot (a mistake!) should have internalized their lesson (“Be more careful! Don’t make mistakes!”) and be less likely to make all manner of dissimilar mistakes stemming from unrelated causes in the future, and it would be great if humans’ brains were wired to work like that, but they’re just not.

          • HaileUnlikely

            K – I agree with that. He made a mistake. That doesn’t mean he must be old or senile or incompetent. We all make mistakes. Yes, he should admit it and learn from it, not threaten the cyclist who pointed it out. No argument there.

        • Sure, the driver presumably made an honest mistake (not sure I believe that, but let’s grant them the benefit of doubt even though it seems like they don’t deserve it). The problem is that the driver than proceeded to make an idle threat at the bicyclist when called out on their boorish driving ability. That’s absolutely not okay.

          • Yeah. I dont want it to seem like I am defending the guy. He shouldn’t have implied hitting the guy.

    • Confronting is part and parcel with instructing. So many drivers don’t realize that they are doing anything wrong and won’t stop until they are informed, shamed, and/or ticketed for their unsafe driving. Because I’m equal opportunity, I politely let both drivers and fellow cyclists know when they are being unsafe asshats. And then shut up their tirades by pointing at my gopro (thinking of you, wrong way cyclist who was just “turning around” yesterday).

      • You say “self-righteous arrogance”, I say “safety”. But who really cares about a life or twenty?
        Shaming someone is hardly vigilante. Save it for the morons who try to key your car.

      • You’re so right, P! The world would be a much better place if we were all like you!

      • *eyeroll* you don’t also drive a lexis suv, do you?

    • I love how a late 50s gentleman is being equated with someone very elderly who gets confused in high traffic areas because their age. Give me a break.

  • Brb- gotta get my popcorn ready. Nothin’ like a biker/driver argument.

  • I feel like in cases like this, the license plate number shouldn’t be blurred.

    • You mean a case of having one side of the story?

    • We are going off of the work of the OP – there are two sides to every story. I once was cut off by a cabbie who dinged my week old car in the process before giving me the finger when I honked at them to stop. A few days later I found a posting on NextDoor about some horrible woman who aggressively confronted him and made him feel threatened. That woman was me.

  • Lexus SUV drivers are the WORST.

  • Emmaleigh504

    I’m curious, does it ever end well when the cyclist goes up to the window and a driver to tell them to watch out for cyclists?

    • Anecdotally, positive interactions about 2/50 incidents.

      • Actual chuckle. 🙂

      • My positive interaction percentage is a little higher, though not much. But a less than amazing interaction in the moment doesn’t mean the driver won’t think more about the situation (like avoiding clipping the bike lane in a traffic circle, here) next time they are in it.

      • 4% is about right. Even though it usually ends in the driver shrieking at me, it’s still worth rolling by on my bike and saying “excuse me, you almost killed a pedestrian back there, please be more careful.” At least I’m trying to alert them to a problem.

        • maxwell smart

          Agreed. My personal experience is that it’s usually Uber/Lyft drivers who either were clueless there was a bike land OR are really good at acting clueless.

    • It depends on the approach and the individuals. (WOT warning)
      .
      Scenarios A: The first time I visited Portland (OR), I merged into the bike lane to turn right. I had checked mirrors and blind spot, and while there was a cyclist about a half a block behind me, I was clear to merge and turn. I got stopped at the next light. He pulled up next to me, couched his comment in “I saw you check the lane, you must not be from around here” and calmly explained that “we don’t merge into bike lanes for turns here.” I apologized, thanked him, said that we did indeed merge where I was from, told him I wouldn’t do it again, and we both were off. I also once got in a bump with someone in a parking lot (we couldn’t see each other coming out opposite ways around the giant SUV parked between us)…we had a “are you okay, no are you okay, is your car okay, no is your car okay, etc.”-off, apologized to each other one final time, debated over who would go first, and went on our ways with another “sorry” wave.
      .
      I was also cut off, chased down (we both unfortunately parked just after the turn), and threatened by a large man when I refused to turn right on red and responded to his blaring horn by pointing out the window at the no turn on red sign. I didn’t even say anything, and barely held him up since he went around me, and I was still threatened with bodily harm. I once set a woman off by catching back up to her after she illegally passed me. She saw me sitting in the lane next to her at a red light about a mile from where she passed and flipped her shit. I didn’t chase her, flip her off…I simply proved her dangerous actions were unwarranted by my mere presence, and that was enough to cause a melt down.
      .
      Unfortunately, the latter experiences are more common than my “sorry, I didn’t know, thanks for informing me” in OR or “my bad…no my bad…no my bad” in that parking lot. You can’t tell me or that woman who I kissed bumpers with in that parking lot from the aggressive, irrational a-holes on sight (especially since I drive *assertively*…I wouldn’t make it out of my neighborhood in this city if I *didn’t*).
      .
      I also wish we did personality testing as a part of driver training and testing. Those with aggressive tendencies could then be trained/tested in different ways. But since we can’t even make driver’s ed mandatory in DC without a wailing uproar, that’s a MASSIVE pipe dream. Without mandatory, formal driver’s ed, the aggressive tendencies of so many of the drivers here get passed down generation after generation…

      • Oh, I should also note that in the aggressive scenarios, both a-hole drivers had their kids with them…what a fine example to learn from!

  • This plate looks slightly different than stock. This isn’t a City Council plate, is it? That would be icing on the cake.

    • That plate just means that this person has some sort of a higher-level connection to the DC government. This feller certainly seems rather entitled to feeling like they are some special snowflake.

    • Looks like a regular D.C. plate to me (though it’s hard to tell, given the strategic blurring).

  • I’d question the term “gentleman…”

  • Feel for you. I’ve almost been hit more times than I can count. I think the biggest issue here is that everyone thinks that they are a special snowflake that can do no wrong. It seems to me that most people would rather die than admit they screwed up. I, for one, screw up all of the time. I am not saying that no one will apologize, I have actually had some decent interactions that started with people almost running me down. An older gentlemen thanked me after his car started to roll into an intersection when he wasn’t paying attention and I slapped the hood of his car “rather pay to pop a dent than live with knowing I hit someone.”

    Friends of PoPville, it’s okay to be wrong. People won’t think less of you for admitting it. Your spouse won’t leave you and your children will still love you. Just say I’m sorry and move on. Make the world a better place.

  • I’ve totally given up on the “bike lanes.” Between the potholes, trash, joggers, jay walking pedestrians, aggressive cyclists, constant construction, wheelchairs, hover boards, skate boarders, segways, mopeds, horse manure (no joke), snow, cars full on driving in the lanes, gravel/sand, cars turning without looking, people getting out of cabs without looking, uber/lyft drivers picking people up, pedestrians just standing there staring at their phones with headphones on, cyclists turning without signaling, and various other crazy things I’ve run into over 6 years of bike commuting, I’ll take my chances on the full on road any day.

    Worst death trap lane award goes to rush hour on L ST, closely followed by M St.

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