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“But what about people like me?”

by Prince Of Petworth January 24, 2017 at 1:30 pm 191 Comments

vpp

“So DDOT has a new policy in 2017 that in order to obtain a Visitor Parking Pass (VPP), you need to have a valid DC driver’s license or ID card. It used to be that you entered your DC address, and you would receive the pass in the mail, no further identification required.

This new requirement troubles me. I don’t have a car myself, and yet I would need to change my permanent out-of-district driver’s license in order to have visitors. These are legitimate temporary visitors (e.g. housekeeper, my parents, friends) who would use the pass for a few hours at a time, but more than the maximum 2-hours noted on the signs in my Zone 1 neighborhood. (Note that even to get a DC ID card, you cannot have a driver’s license in any state).

I understand the previous system could be abused by drivers who live and/or work in DC, but their vehicles stay registered out-of-district and they use the VPP as a permanent parking pass.

But what about people like me?

Do people feel this is fair? Is there any other way to obtain a VPP that you know of? If I got a DC resident friend or neighbor to give me one (for the appropriate Zone#, of course), would I or they get fined somehow?”

You can see all forum topics and add your own here.

  • Admiral Yi

    This new requirement is very much for people like you. You need to just bite the bullet and register your license in DC where you live. Its not that hard.

    • taco puss

      +1000. If you live in DC, get a goddamned DC ID already.

      • Luckycat

        You took the words right out of my mouth. If you live here, get a DC ID!

    • Allison

      +10000 You’re complaining about wanting services from the city but don’t want to commit to really living in the city. Just get a DC license and stop whining.

    • MsSunshine

      Reiterating my request for a new Popville feature: I’m Above the Law and You’re Not!

      • ivoted4kodos

        Best way to avoid this issue is to not commit fraud.

      • ivoted4kodos

        ^This!

    • PSA 403

      I like this new procedure and it was easy applying for Visitor Parking Pass online. Yes I feel that this is much better because it you live in the District of Columbia, you should have a valid D.C. Drivers License. I agree with you 100% Admiral Yi.

    • James W.

      Exactly. Whether you own a car or not is completely irrelevant to being a DC resident.

  • MDtoVAtoDC

    I think it’s fair. You should have an ID with your current address on it anyway. I do however think that they should accept other forms of ID for those that don’t have licenses at all. Or an exception for temporary college students, etc.

  • Hill Denizen

    Well, you’re technically required to get a DC license if you live here. From the DC DMV site: “If you reside in the District for more than 30 days, you must convert your out-of-state driver license or provisional license to either a DC DMV REAL ID driver license or a REAL ID provisional license.” So, no they aren’t going to condone you skirting the rules.

    • textdoc

      +1.

    • xtian

      Yeah we’re done here. Thread over.

      • FridayGirl

        I knew this would be the first response.
        .
        I *can* see how it could really be an inconvenience though depending on the situation. I, for example, don’t have a drivers license. I do have my passport and an out-of-state ID that I paid to renew relatively recently, and that I’d like to not have to pay for again since… you know… I can’t even drive with it. Thankfully I don’t foresee the need for me to have a parking pass this year.

        • xtian

          I think the entitlement involved in feeling owed a visitors parking pass without having to be ‘inconvenienced’ is what a lot of people are going to take issue with here.

          • Anonymous

            +1. I think it’s fine to require people to fulfill simple minimum requirements to benefit from city services. I’m also OK with different minimum requirements for different services. I’m also OK with needing a DC ID or being a DC homeowner as a requirement for getting a VPP.

        • textdoc

          I don’t understand why you felt compelled to keep your out-of-state ID — especially the action of renewing it when it was about to expire. (That would have been the logical time to trade it in for a D.C. license.)
          .
          You live in D.C. and have no immediate plans to return to your home state. And presumably if you _did_ return to your home state, you could get a new driver’s license upon your return.

          • Anonamom

            I agree with your statement. I can understand when people wait until registration/license is about to expire to change, but I don’t really understand intentionally keeping your registration/license for a place you have zero plans to return to.
            .
            I will admit that I am still licensed/have my car registered in DC due to some unfortunate issue with my ex that needs to be worked out, so I get that extenuating circumstances do exist. I’m never harsh on anyone without of state plates/ licenses, but I think if you are expecting certain services (like RPP) then you need to play by the rules.

          • FridayGirl

            I was in my first semester of grad school when I had to renew it (my home state does long renewals but charges a wallop) and had zero idea and minimal intention to stay in DC beyond my graduation date at that time. I’m also going to remind myself next time to not become involved in these conversations — because it really is no one’s place to tell me what to do with an ID that will switch eventually. Maybe you should try talking with the 50-year-olds I work with who still have their home state ID instead.

          • FridayGirl

            Also I would like to point out that I did note I do not expect to take advantage of RPP like original poster. I do think it is a one-or-the-other decision.

          • Anonamom

            FridayGirl – Well there you go, You did have some intention to go back when you renewed, plus you didn’t want to use any particular services.. This puts you in my category of “I give zero fucks/this is not my business.” FWIW, people are going to give you shade for it, you have to let it roll. I got shade for a year in DC for having MD plates, and now I’ll spend probably just as long getting shade in MD for having DC plates. I will probably now get a lecture from some person here who feels the need to school me on my rights/responsibilities as a driver. It won’t stop me from commenting (and it shouldn’t stop you from commenting) because people should be able to realize that not everything is as black and white as they think it is.

          • FridayGirl

            Thank you, anonamom.

          • dcd

            There are two separate things going on here. First – scolding someone for not changing their ID – MYOB. That’s their business, people can do as they please. However, the other question pertains to official DC policy – should DC require a valid DC ID (license or otherewise) for a RPP? In my view, that’s perfectly acceptable (with the caveat that there should be an exception for students, who are not required to change their licenses and should still be able to get a VPP if they rant off-campus housing). Parking is increasingly scarce, and it’s reasonable for the city to try to confirm that a person is an official DC resident before providing virtually free parking to that individual’s guests. However, we do not (and cannot) legislate (or regulate) to take into account every possible scenario. The vast majority of people have driver’s licenses (that’s a guess, but a good one, I think), and the majority of people have no real barrier to changing their licenses when they move. If you do have a real barrier, I think that stinks, and in a perfect world you could get some relief. But that scant few people isn’t a basis for dictating policy. As for those who just choose to not give up their ID from another state, that’s their right, as I said above. But when they complain about not being able to access the full range of city services, my only reaction is to shrug . . .
            .
            ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          • HaileUnlikely

            FWIW In case it is of actual interest: data on driver licensing rates nationally are shockingly bad, but it appears that roughly 85% of the adult population has a license. It is generally much lower in urban populations and low-income populations, the both of which DC has a lot of, so the licensing rate in DC is probably somewhat below the national average for those reasons.

          • dcd

            Huh, that’s a lot lower than I thought. I don’t think it changes my position, though, given that the non-driver ID costs $2.50 per year.

          • Anon

            “As for those who just choose to not give up their ID from another state, that’s their right…” It’s fair to say it’s not your concern. But it isn’t their “right” as they are violating DC law.

        • Anonymous

          I was going to say the same thing as textdoc. Why would you actively choose to renew and expiring out-of-state license rather than take the opportunity to convert it to a DC license?

          • Formerly ParkViewRes

            I don’t get this either. I really don’t understand not converting your home state license to where you currently live. Why not? I had like 3 Virginia licenses at one point because I moved so many times and had to update the address and then two DC licenses because they instituted REAL ID.

          • FridayGirl

            See above.

          • Anonamom

            Shit really does happen. I am currently unable to switch from DC to MD because of an issue with my ex and a car that should not be in my name but is, and something that I did not know about until I attempted to get my license (well, actually technically I do still have a license in MD thanks to the fact that MD and DC apparently don’t talk to each other; I have changed my address with the MVA, but am unable to get an actual card until the issues with the ex are cleared up). So technically speaking, I have an unusable MD license (has ‘void’ stamped on it) with valid change of address card, however, this can’t be used to register my car in MD. So my car remains registered in DC and I also have a license for DC.

          • Formerly ParkViewRes

            I get those reasons, but I know a ton of people who have been in DC for 5-10 years and haven’t converted their license and don’t have a good reason. You can see some of them on this thread. They just don’t want to get a DC license! That’s what is strange to me.

          • Tsar of Truxton

            Formerly PVR, I think the reason is people want to be able to register to vote elsewhere. It is fraud and illegal, but people don’t seem to care. The law is that you need to convert, so even waiting out the expiration of an old ID is not a valid excuse.

          • Anon

            How much does getting a DC license cost? If it isn’t a hardship, I don’t understand “I don’t want to” or “I just renewed somewhere else” as good reasons to not comply with DC law.

          • Anon

            And as for the person who doesn’t have a DL but a state ID, a DC ID is $2.50/year, I believe. What does it matter what was paid in for an ID from a state you don’t live in? That’s a sunk cost. Getting an ID from where you actually like is incredibly cheap.

        • Huma

          Hi — I don’t have a driver’s license either. I do, however, have a DC ID. Because I LIVE HERE. As do you. So this means that you don’t even vote in any local election. Way to exercise your responsibilities as an occupant of the city you claim to reside in.

          Out of curiosity, how much did it cost for your out-of-state ID renewal and does it come with an extra fee that absolves you of your civic responsibilities?

          • Formerly ParkViewRes

            Hmm, I thought you just had to register to vote? I never showed my DL when voting in DC elections.

          • Anonamom

            You do not need a license to register to vote, you can register in person and show appropriate documents that prove your residency. You do not have to have a state issued ID. Would life be easier with one? Probably, but it is absolutely not a requirement.

          • Truxton Thomas

            “So this means that you don’t even vote in any local election.”

            That’s not what it means. Just because you can register to vote when you get a license doesn’t mean you have to get a license to register to vote, at least not in D.C. There is currently a massive national debate over this issue, because many states have begun to require voter IDs. D.C. certainly is not one of these jurisdictions.

          • Huma

            I stand corrected on the voting requirements. My badly phrased (in a fit of anger) original point was about the civic responsibilities associated with being a resident in addition to voting.

            Still curious to know how much it costs for the out-of-state ID renewal that FridayGirl had to pay for and then couldn’t pay the DC costs.

          • FridayGirl

            Huma, I think your argument would be better pointed at OP at this point, given that showing my age on a plastic card so I can order a beer really has nothing to do with my civic responsibilities nor residency in DC.

          • ugh

            Oh, calm down. I haven’t had a state/district ID in any jurisdiction since an ancient learner permit expired years and years ago and I definitely vote in every election because all you need is a Pepco bill with your address on it (or a paystub! or any of several acceptable documents in a list conveniently available on the DC BOE website for people to Google before getting on their high horse!).

          • Tsar of Truxton

            You are still required by law to change your license, regardless of the cost, inconvenience, etc.

          • Huma

            No, am still curious about the costs. I also do not see the value of not changing residency when DC is clearly where you live but happy to be enlightened.

        • DC_tenner

          Well, you’re technically required to get a DC license if you live here. From the DC DMV site: “If you reside in the District for more than 30 days, you must convert your out-of-state driver license or provisional license to either a DC DMV REAL ID driver license or a REAL ID provisional license.” So, no they aren’t going to condone you skirting the rules.

        • DC_tenner

          If you reside in the District for more than 30 days, you must convert your out-of-state driver license or provisional license to either a DC DMV REAL ID driver license or a REAL ID provisional license.” So, no they aren’t going to condone you skirting the rules.

          • HaileUnlikely

            The OP is in fact talking about a license. However, if you read up, you’ll find that this little subthread here is about a non-driver ID for somebody who in fact cannot drive.

          • textdoc

            Ahh. Thanks for pointing that out, HaileUnlikely. I had thought the subthread was about an out-of-state driver’s license for someone who _didn’t_ drive in D.C., rather than an out-of-state non-driver’s ID for someone who _cannot_ drive.
            .
            D.C. is pretty clear about the need to change an out-of-state driver’s license to a D.C. one within 30 days of moving to D.C. _if_ you drive in D.C…. but it looks like there’s no requirement to do so with an out-of-state non-driver’s ID.
            .
            “If you have lived in the District of Columbia for 30 days or more and you drive a vehicle in public, you must get a driver license from DC DMV—unless you are a student, diplomat, active military member, part-time resident, member of Congress, or presidential appointee and are thus eligible for driving privilege reciprocity with your home state or jurisdiction.”

    • anon29

      +1 came to say something similar

  • transplanted

    “I don’t have a car myself, and yet I would need to change my permanent out-of-district driver’s license in order to have visitors.”
    .
    Yeah, you’re supposed to do that within 30 days or so of moving to a new state anyway. I mean, a lot of people don’t follow that rule, but it’s not like the “visitors pass” is imposing this requirement on you. You were already supposed to do that.

  • Autoexec.bat

    If you live in DC most or all of the year, as you seem to indicate, you should have a DC driver’s license or ID card. It doesn’t matter if you don’t drive. Pretty sure the IRS and each municipality already have laws on the books that spell out all of this (with exceptions for military and Hill staff, as I recall), so this may just be an enforcement of existing statute.

    • FridayGirl

      “If you live in DC most or all of the year, as you seem to indicate, you should have a DC driver’s license or ID card. It doesn’t matter if you don’t drive.”
      .
      I disagree with this. Drivers Licenses are different, but isn’t the whole kerfuffle about needing ID to vote such an issue because not everyone has ID? Please link the existing statutes if they exist. You don’t actually need an ID card, for example, to pay your taxes in DC nor get a refund.

      • John

        You don’t need a driver’s license of ID card. But if you want to exercise any of the privileges that come with those documents (e.g., parking pass), then you need one. Some things are privileges (driving, preferred parking for visitors), not rights (voting).

        • FridayGirl

          Right, but Autoexec.bat wasn’t addressing the RPP specifically. They made a sweeping statement that everyone should change because there was a law. I simply asked them to share their source, for my own information, and they did not oblige. Thus, I can politely tell you both to shove it.

          • Autoexec.bat

            There is a law. DC gov says if you live in DC for more than 30 days, you are required to obtain an ID/license. Half of the comments in this thread reference the same law. Do you want me to quote the statute, song and verse?

          • dcd

            I actually would like to see the statute. If you drive a car, you need a valid license, and that means converting it to a DC license if you live here. No one’s disputing that (at least, FridayGirl isn’t). But you’re talking about an affirmative obligation to get either an ID card or a license, whether you want to or not. I don’t believe that exists. FWIW, the DC DMV non-driver ID page states, “DC DMV offers identification cards to District residents who need an official form of identification, but do not want or need a driver license. We offer both a REAL ID non-driver identification card, which serves as a valid federal-level ID, and a Limited Purpose non-driver identification card, which is available to District residents who do not have a Social Security number.” There’s nothing mandatory there.

          • textdoc

            FWIW, it could be in regulations (rules promulgated by D.C. executive-branch agencies) rather than statute (laws passed by the D.C. Council)

          • Anonymous

            No one is generally required to get a license, unless they are operating a motor vehicle on DC roadways or making use of related services (Side Note: a license, however, is often used as a presumptive indicator for domicile and residence in the context of a bunch of different programs and policies.)
            .
            Concerning statutes, I didn’t go through all of them, but these are the basic ones that require an individual operating a motor vehicle in DC to be registered within 30 days: DC Code § 50–1401.01. Fee; examination; age requirements; lost permits; provisions for armed forces personnel; contents; operation without permit prohibited; restrictions for minors, DC Code § 50–1401.02. Exemptions., and DC Code§ 50–1501.02. Motor vehicles and trailers; expiration; certificates and tags; sale or transfer; Mayor to issue rules.

          • Bob Loblaw

            There is a legally significant difference between domicile and residency -which is often obfuscated/complicated by an out-of-state ID. Look up ‘domicile’ v. ‘Residency’. Primarily, it pertains to jurisdiction, i.e., which court has power over you. This is a very common tactic for welfare fraud, dodging child support, avoiding tax liens, wage garnishment, fines, tickets, etc. Basically, if you are being sued or otherwise owe someone money, then it is helpful to complicate the jurisdictional issue with an out of state ID. Driving has nothing to do with it.

      • Autoexec.bat

        You can disagree but, as this thread makes clear, DC government and 99% of commenters think you’re wrong.

        • FridayGirl

          “Please link the existing statutes if they exist.”
          .
          Someone doesn’t have them!

          • Ivoted4kodos

            They have them, you just keep refusing to accept them. It’s on the first page of the DCDMV dealing with licenses. You can choose to ignore it, but that doesn’t make you right.

            https://dmv.dc.gov/service/driver-licenses

          • Ivoted4kodos

            Go to Google, type in DC driver’s license law. First link:

            “If you reside in the District for more than 30 days, you must convert your out-of-state driver license or provisional license to either a DC DMV REAL ID driver license or a REAL ID provisional license. You will have to provide proof of your residency in the District. If you have an out-of-state driver license but do not qualify for a DC DMV REAL ID license, you may be eligible for a DC DMV Limited Purpose driver license. More information on the Limited Purpose credential is available at the link below:”

        • HaileUnlikely

          Sometimes 99% of commenters are indeed wrong. FridayGirl has stated that she does not drive, and thus does not have a driver’s license from any jurisdiction. The law about converting out-of-state *licenses* is to help DC keep tabs on drivers for a variety of reasons. People who do not drive are not required to have an ID at all, and thus obviously cannot be required by law get one within a certain timeframe. Yes, there are certain things that you can’t do without an ID, but that is not the question at hand.

          • Autoexec.bat

            You’re just being pedantic. Yes, I was specifically addressing the RPP process, which is what the OP was about. You took my wording 100% literally and fixated on the word ID. You are right, if you don’t drive and don’t use ANY government services, you can avoid getting a DC ID or driver’s license. But it seems like you’re just trying to be pedantic to win an Internet argument. If you have an ID from another jurisdiction, do you vote in that jurisdiction? Are you a student?

          • HaileUnlikely

            You were responding to somebody who stated explicitly that she was not talking about the RPP process, was a non-driver, and was talking specifically about non-driver ID. So yes, I took your use of “ID” literally, since your comment appeared to be in response to somebody who stated abundantly clearly that she was talking about a non-driver ID.

      • ivoted4kodos

        Huh? In DC it’s extremely easy to get ID and just about every single org in town will pay for you to get one. This isn’t Mississippi.

        Just out of curiosity, you’e the OP right?

        • FridayGirl

          I am not. As I mentioned at least twice above, I have no need for any visitor/residential parking permit.

          • Ivoted4kodos

            Are those “alternative facts” by any chance?

          • FridayGirl

            No. Asshat. You’re the alternative fact.

  • DC License Holder

    You can go to any local police station and get a 15-day parking permit for your guests. Given that you won’t have a DC license you’ll have to bring your lease to prove that you’re a resident.

  • PretzelThirsty

    I feel like overwhelming response is going to be “get rid of your out of state DL.” However, doesn’t this new rule affect people like students or those wouldn’t have to surrender their out of state DL?

    If OP is not one of those exempt from surrendering their DL then I shall join the pitchfork mob and look at you with the stank eye….perhaps even the shifty eye!

    • HIll Easter

      From the VPP FAQ (students, etc are out of luck) –
      What if I don’t have a District DMV Driver’s License or Non-Driver Identification Number?
      If you are a bona-fide District homeowner with the property listing you as a homeowner in the
      Real Property Database (click here) as maintained by the District’s Office of Tax and Revenue,
      you can enter your property’s Square/Suffix/Lot ID number in lieu of a District DMV Driver’s
      License or Non-Driver Identification Number
      .
      If you are not a bona-fide District homeowner and do not have a
      District DMV Driver’s License or Non-Driver Identification Number, you are not eligible to request a 2017 VPP. You can visit your local District DMV Office
      (click here) to request a District DMV Driver’s License or Non-Driver Identification Card

      • Non-DC renter

        I do not currently have DC license. But when I registered for the VPP pass, I included my apartment’s property square number and was still approved. The pass arrived just about a week later. I’d suggest trying this approach.

        • Commentator

          The SSL option is for homeowners only and if you’re a renter and applied as a homeowner then that would be providing false information and could subject you to fines. I wouldn’t recommend that approach.

      • JohnH

        Students can still get a temporary parking pass at a police station (which actually allows much easier parking than the VPP). And if they’re renting, it’s not their problem to worry about maintenance workers, etc.

        • Anon

          What if they’re parking illegally? That’s not right.

  • VPP

    Are you positive? I didn’t have to put in any DL information when registering for the 2017 VPP last week.

    • anon

      I did – had to put in my driver’s license number this month when I registered for the pass. It just arrived. And I’m not a homeowner. I just put in my address & unit #, not the square and block number, didn’t pretend to be a homeowner. But I rent a condo, so maybe they assume I own it? That wouldn’t really make sense, as plenty of condos are rented out.

  • Abradolf Lincler

    Are you a student? If not, you should have gotten a DC license within 30 days of moving here. I will never understand why people maintain a permanent address where they do not live. Grow up.

    • Marty

      active duty military don’t require DC ID card nor drivers license. yet they may own a house in an RPP zone.
      (I am such a person, but don’t live in an RPP zone.)

      • Anon

        Do you get the Homestead Deduction on your house? I know someone that had to pay back taxes on the Homestead Deduction because she never got a DC license after buying her house.

        • Formerly ParkViewRes

          How could that be? Homestead is related to whether you live in it or not. What if you don’t have a driver’s license period? That seems odd.

          • Anon

            It’s ridiculous but true. She doesn’t drive, but had every other form of proof of residency you can imagine. Let this be a warning to others– get a DC ID card at least!

          • Anonymous

            Although a license is evidence of domicile, which is one of the homestead deduction requirements, it is not absolutely required. Depending on the facts of the situation, it is entirely possible OTR made a mistake. From FP-100 Homestead Deduction, Senior Citizen, and Disabled Property Tax Relief Application:
            .
            Domicile: To apply for the Homestead Deduction/Disabled/Senior
            Citizen Tax Relief, you must be domiciled in the District of
            Columbia and the property listed on this form must be your
            principal residence. To establish District domicile, the District
            must be your permanent home. Actions which you may take to
            establish domicile include obtaining a District driver’s license/
            Identification, registering your vehicle in the District, and
            registering and actively voting in the District. You should also
            file District and Federal income tax returns from this residence.

          • Anon

            Yeah, none of that was good enough. She fought it tooth and nail but still had to pay.

          • Anonymous

            As I noted, OTR may have made an incorrect determination, or there may be more to the story. It may behoove her to contact an attorney or her local elected officials.

          • Anon

            I don’t think there’s more to the story (I know her situation quite well) but it’s possible the various OTR employees all got it wrong. I still think it’s a good idea for taxpaying, voting, homeowning residents to get a DC ID or license to avoid the hassle of trying to prove they live here!

          • Anonymous

            I certainly agree with that!

          • Anon

            Think of it this way: Not having the ID was one piece of evidence OTR could consider supporting that this person was not domiciled here and was entitled to the Homestead Deduction. Who knows what they other evidence was? But having an ID that does not match your domicile can be used as a point of evidence against you in situation where you have to prove domicile.

        • Marty

          Nope, we don’t claim that, as we aren’t DC residents (but have 2x kids in school here, and own a house, etc.)

    • Dogg

      Don’t some people keep their hometown license / address for cheaper insurance?

      Also – maybe they want to have their vote heard in a swing state

      I don’t condone, just reasons I can think of for not switching

      • Anon

        I’ve moved around a bit and always made sure to switch back to DC because the insurance was cheaper here! Also, I’ve known people that were able to vote in their old state despite having DC licenses (depends on the state I think but you can do it with VA).

      • Anon

        The insurance thing can come back to bite you. I used to practice law in MA in a high-volume firm with an arrangement with a few union locals to provide legal services for their members. You wouldn’t believe the number of people in MA who would register their cars at a relative’s house in NH for cheaper insurance only to have a stolen/totaled car claim denied for fraud. At least in MA, the insurance companies would gladly spend a few bucks investigating each NH-registered car clam that originated in MA in order to potentially save thousands. We’d get outraged calls several times a month but it’s tough when the insurance company has photos of the insured regularly leaving his house in Southie to head to work and coming home again and there’s no evidence of a second home or anything like that.

      • ivoted4kodos

        Which is fraud. Reasons there may be, but still fraud. Also really fun when you get jacked and can’t claim because they figure out you’ve been committing fraud.

      • Anon

        My sister does this within her own state (uses cheaper address). I’ve tried to explain that she is basically paying for nothing, as if she gets in a serious accident and the insurance company does a serious investigation, they will have an out from covering her based on her fraud. State law may vary of course.

  • grammarsupervisor

    Did anyone else notice that this year’s version seems to direct you to place the parking pass so that it is unreadable? “this side down” could be interpreted as face down; what I think they mean is ‘this end closest to the windshield”

    • Alison

      Yes, I did notice that. It was discussed on my listserv, someone reached out to the agency, and they said to disregard that typo.

    • Tom

      I noticed that too. Maybe they thought if you folded the paper in half, that side would then be facing down?

    • Anonymous

      Yes, DDOT was sufficiently shamed on this site as well as Twitter and probably elsewhere over that little mistake. While I’m sure it felt nice to rake them over the coals a bit I think anyone legitimately confused by it should probably be more ashamed of themselves than of DDOT.

    • anonabeer

      I think you are supposed to fold it in half so that side is indeed down (that side becomes the back of the pass). I actually think it is correct but the person who decided to change it from last years (which was also confusing if you fold it in half) was not the person responding to the complaints and didn’t realize why it said that. Although a “fold here” line would help. Edit (about to post and see someone already mentioned the folding).

  • Ross

    If you’re living in DC, get a DC license as you are legally supposed to. If this is the new requirement, then I don’t think it’s unreasonable they’re requiring you to have DC identification.

    Unless you work for a congressman when you’re not required to change to DC residency (which is a whole other can of worms). Then you’re SOL, I guess?

  • DCbyDay

    people that don’t change their drivers licenses from their home states when they legitimately move somewhere make so angry. Are you going to use your parents address as your permanent address forever?

    • Ross

      +1. And half the cars in my building’s garage have license plates from Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania or a handful of other states. Their owners are probably unaware that parking them in a private garage doesn’t exempt them from the requirement that they be registered here in most cases, or that they can still be ticketed while being parked in this garage.

    • curious

      Thoughts about those living in rental situations where their address could change from year to year (or even every few months)? $20 fee to change every time could add up.

      • FridayGirl

        +1 to this. What about people who switched to DC ID but don’t change their address on their ID every time they move apartments? It’s the same thing.

        • DC ID HOLDER

          you are suppose to change your ID when you move even if its not a license.

          • HaileUnlikely

            I’m going to join FridayGirl in calling bullsh!t on that one. There is no law that a person must have an ID in the first place if one does not drive, thus, the notion that one is legally obligated to *change* what one is not legally obligated to have in the first place strikes me as haile unlikely. (Yes, there are certain things that you can’t do without one, but that is not the question here.) Provide evidence to the contrary and I’ll happily admit that I am wrong.

          • Tsar of Truxton

            “If you move to a different address in Washington, D.C., you must notify the D.C. DMV within 60 calendar days. Your options to change your address will depend on whether you have a REAL ID/limited purpose driver’s license or ID card, or a standard card.
            Once you’ve changed your address with the D.C. DMV, your driver’s license and motor vehicle records will both be updated and you will receive an updated driver’s license/ID card.”

            I will also note that by January of next year, you will need a REAL ID to use your license for domestic air travel.

          • dcd

            I generally agree with Haile. There’s no obligation to get a government-issued ID. But, don’t complaint that there are things you can’t do because you don’t have a valid government issued ID.

          • HaileUnlikely

            The DMV is not citing a law there. Their use of “must” in that sentence basically amounts to a gruffly-phrased request.

          • Tsar of Truxton

            There may be no obligation to get a government-issued ID, but when you have one there is a requirement to keep it updated. Honestly, it is good to have an updated ID for safety reasons as well.

          • HaileUnlikely

            I have no disagreement with the “it’s good to…” part of that. I’m just questioning the existence of such a law or requirement that is applicable to ID cards not linked to driving privileges. The language that you cite on the DMV website is clearly distinguishing between a limited-purpose (i.e., non-REAL-ID compliant) vs. REAL ID card, but from the wording of it, the lumping of ID card with driver’s license seems to be an artifact of sloppy writing, as in the first sentence they cite both licenses and ID cards, but then further down they talk about things that happen with your driver’s license and motor vehicle record after you update your record.

          • Tsar of Truxton

            In DC, you either get a REAL ID driver’s license or a REAL ID non-driver’s ID card. Limited purpose ID cards are only for people without a SSN.

          • HaileUnlikely

            Yes, I follow. DC calls the one for people without a SSN a “limited purpose driver’s license” or “limited purpose identification card.” What I am saying is that in the language you cited from the DMV website, I believe they intended to draw a distinction between the REAL ID vs the limited-purpose license, but I think they lumped identification cards with driver’s licenses accidentally. I am unaware of and cannot find any authoritative source to indicate that such a requirement is an actual law.

          • FridayGirl

            “But, don’t complaint that there are things you can’t do because you don’t have a valid government issued ID.”
            .
            I’m sorry this whole thread has gotten so off topic. My original point –
            tl;dr – I am not complaining about this because I do not plan to use this service, but I felt that it would be useful to present the devils-advocate position that there are several different situations in which this change of procedure might affect people. Clearly that did not come across, and clearly it is not a position that has any support, which is fine. It does not affect me one way or another. OP on the other hand is probably annoyed.

          • Tsar of Truxton

            It is the same thing. The REAL ID and REAL ID non-driver’s license is the same application and requires the same proof of residency.

          • HaileUnlikely

            Yes, again, I follow. What I am saying is that the legal requirements to keep the thing that confers driving privileges up to date are different from the requirements to keep the thing that doesn’t confer driving privileges up to date, for reasons that pertain to driving privileges.

          • Tsar of Truxton

            Agree to disagree. It is pretty clear that if you have a REAL ID of any sort, the requirement is the same.

      • Formerly ParkViewRes

        I’ll admit, I kept my parents address on my Virginia license (but I still lived in Virginia) for a bit because I was moving around so much. But then I was getting on 66 W to go to work and got pulled over for an expired county sticker. I actually had the sticker, but just forgot to put it on. She wrote me a ticket for that and for not having updated my address on my license! I got them both dismissed once I updated it, but after that never again. So I’ve updated my address and license (once I moved into DC) five times in 5 years! What’s stupid is neither Virginia nor DC ever took any of my licenses. I currently have valid Virginia, DC and now Ontario licenses, but obviously only use the Ontario one.

        • Anon

          Just a small note: Depending on local law of where they were issued, these other licenses probably aren’t “valid.” Also, depending on local law of where you use them, that could get you in trouble for using them. You said you only used the one; best not to use the others, even in a pinch.

      • Anonymous

        Cost of doing business. You’re probably going to spend far more on the actual move. $20/yr is at most 0.3% of your annual rent payments (I’m assuming you’re not renting a place for less than $600/mo) so I’m not too sympathetic to this argument. Worst case you don’t do it and go without RPP, VPP, voting for your ANC/Ward reps, etc.

        • Tom

          LOL didn’t see this till now, didn’t mean to steal your phrase!

      • Tom

        Cost of doing business. When I moved into D.C., I had to pay the non-driver ID fee, then the learner’s permit fee—on the plus side, they screwed up and mailed me two of them—and eventually the driver’s license fee.

    • anonymous

      Deal with it. This is a transient area. Speaking as someone who has lived here for nearly 14 years, I have no desire to get a DC license. I fly back to my home state to renew when necessary (some of those years didn’t count, anyway, since I worked for a Member from my home state). Tying the VPP to a DC drivers license is ridiculous. Many of us don’t have a connection to this area beyond our jobs and friends- mentally, I very much like the idea of keeping one foot out. This is why I rent, rather than own, in this town. Without owning a car, I have even less incentive to get a DC license.To each his own.

      • Anonymous

        I have no problem if you want to “keep one foot out” but I also have no problem if you get fewer city benefits because of it.

        • Anonoline

          Agree. No one’s forcing you to get a DC license– you’ll just be inconvenienced when out-of-town friends come to visit. Sounds like you’re more likely to be visiting them, anyhow.

      • Luckycat

        That’s one way to look at it. I’ve lived here since 1995 (with a 4 year break overseas) but I got my DC license when I decided to stay here and my out of state license was expiring. Up until this past Spring, I had never in my life owned a car, and I also rent, but I neither of those things are considered incentive to get a DC license. I want a license that reflects my current address as a form of ID. Sure, I could still have a NY license, but what for?

        Believe it or not, many people have a connection to DC beyond jobs and friends – some people actually care about the community in which they live.

      • JohnH

        “Many of us don’t have a connection to this area beyond our jobs and friends- ”
        .
        You realize there are millions of people across the country that live where they do because of their jobs and not because their family lives there? That is NOT unique to DC.

        • JohnH

          And by family, I mean relatives.

        • Anon

          I think it’s kind of sad that someone who’s been here for 14 years doesn’t consider this is their home. I don’t work in DC or know many people in DC but I am deeply connected to the place I live!

          • JohnH

            Seriously – I’ve lived in a few different places because of where I worked – if I lived there, I considered it my place of residence. Not “well my job is here right now”. I could understand it if you’re an intern or you are temporary working there 6 months – but 14 years? Yeah….

          • anonymous

            Meh. Home is more than a place or location. DC has been very good to me on many levels, but there are things here that will never make it feel like “home.” My roots are in the Midwest, and long-term living in DC will never change that.

          • Commentator

            I’m an adult, so my home is where I live, but I’ve known grown people who will still refer to their parents’ homes as “their” house, so none of this surprises me.

          • JohnH

            Nothing makes me more happy than when you hear someone basically say how much better another place is to live than D.C., even though that person —-chooses—- to live in DC.
            .
            At least this one isn’t referring to New York or Boston this time.

      • James

        The DMV requirements don’t say to obtain a license in DC ‘if you feel like it is home’. Grow up and follow the rules.

      • minimalist

        You’re a fool for not buying in DC in the 2000s.

    • SEDC

      Yes….. Yes I am…..

  • VPP

    Just check that you are a homeowner then the DL information is no longer required – you just have to put in your SSL #.

  • K

    Just convert your out-of-state drivers license. Its really easy. You don’t have to take a driving exam or anything. Just go to the DMV with your proofs of residency, your old ID, and what ever the fee is. I was really super bummed about giving up my old ID but mostly because the picture on my old NY ID was from my 90s grunge phase and was super hilarious.

    • Anon

      +1
      For those of you that have had bad experiences trying to convert to other states (looking at you, VA) you should know that the same process in DC is a million times faster and easier!

      • MDtoVAtoDC

        +1 Yes! I have a grudge against VA mostly from dealing with their DMV and property tax on my car.

        DC DMV (Georgetown) was absolutely magical compared to VA.

        • Tom

          I came here to say the 100% exact same thing. (Georgetown DMV and all!)

        • Anonoline

          I made the mistake of moving to NoVA several years ago. I spent every Saturday for four months straight at the DMV, and occasional weekdays when I could make it, and also made several phone calls, before I could get my license switched over. When I moved back to DC the whole thing took 40 minutes.

          • anon

            Now if you told us WHY it was such a process, this post might have been useful information for those of us who might be contemplating a move to NOVA.

          • Anonoline

            They’re very picky about the documents. Like one day they’ll reject a utility bill because it’s not on an official letterhead. Next time they’ll say your lease is missing a clause so it’s not valid. Bullshit little things like that which aren’t mentioned anywhere on their website. Sometimes they won’t even tell you what the problem is, just that they don’t feel like helping and you’ll need to come back next time. Also, their system is down constantly (though this may have improved since then). There wasn’t anything unusual about my case and I had all my documents in order but the bureaucratic nonsense makes the process take forever. Does that help?

  • eva

    People like you are the reason that I’ve been called for 5 week grand jury service 3 times in 6 years. Do your freaking civic responsibility and register your presence here so the rest of us don’t have to shoulder the burden of the entire criminal justice system.

    • anonymous

      This isn’t accurate. I do not have a DC drivers license, but I pay taxes and most definitely get called for jury duty. My “presence” is certainly registered in this city.

      • You get called for DC jury duty? When you pay taxes you list your DC address and that’s how you get called?

        • anonymous

          Dan- to answer your question, yes, I get called for jury duty. I attribute it to my taxpayer status in the city, since it began after I left working for the House of Representatives and had to begin paying DC taxes. I do not own a house/condo, and I do not have a drivers license or car that would tie me to the city data. Hence, it has to be connected to my taxes. But now that I write this, it could also have to do with my voter registration, which changed once I could no longer vote in my home state (again, after I left employment with Congress).

        • how we get selected

          From dccourts.gov

          “Jurors are selected from lists of registered District of Columbia voters, persons who have obtained driver’s licenses or identification cards from the D.C. Department of Motor Vehicles, records provided by the D.C. Department of Tax and Revenue, and public assistance rolls. The law requires that you complete and return your juror qualification form within 5 days of receiving it…..”

        • KY Ave

          I thought voter registration was a factor in getting summoned for jury duty?

          • KY Ave

            I guess we all answered at the same time!

      • Anonoline

        I’ve had a DC license since 2008 and have never been called for jury duty so I don’t know if that’s true.

    • hungeegirl

      +1000000000000000000000000000000000
      giving a great big stink eye to the OP

    • Leeran

      Wait, isn’t that tied to being registered to vote in DC?

      • FridayGirl

        Yup. Having a DC ID really doesn’t affect anything unless you drive, and then it affects driving.

      • textdoc

        Getting called for jury duty can be tied to any of several things — see the response from “how we get selected” above.
        .
        I think there might’ve been a time many years ago when jury duty was tied solely to voter registration… but D.C. realized that it wasn’t a good idea to give residents 1) an incentive not register to vote and 2) an easy way to avoid jury duty.

  • zone2f

    Does the address on the license have to match the permit address? I’ve moved but haven’t updated my address with the DMV.

    • AJSE

      No, my license and VPP address don’t match

  • Deb

    I have kept my home state drivers license so that I don’t have to spend an enormous amount of money registering my car (which I do not have to because I am a full-time student with reciprocity) – but I was also able to get a DC non-drivers license so that I could officially establish residency to enroll in Obamacare. They didn’t make me get rid of my PA driver’s ID. I hope that helps!

    • ah

      Was going to ask this – is there any reason you can’t keep your out of state license and apply for a non-driver DC ID? You may be running afoul of the law in your home state as a result, but clearly you’re willing to do that by not getting a DC DL in the first place (“you” is referring to OP).

      • notconvinced

        Right, this approach would be breaking the law.

        Listen, people can get away with a lot in the name of not paying for things… you could probably get away with not filing your taxes in a new state.. responsible adults follow the rules, others cheat.

  • anon

    I don’t understand people who don’t have official identification for where they live. Do they pay taxes to the appropriate state? Where are they registered to vote? How much of an impermanent and improper mosaic is your legal status? Get it together.

    • anonymous

      Nearly 14 years here- no DC drivers license, but DC taxpayer and a DC-registered voter. When you don’t have a car, it turns out that living without a DC drivers license is not only possible- it is also (until now, for me) not even a hindrance for anything, including employment. DC requiring it for VPP has created a headache for me, and I oppose it. Just a money grab, in my eyes.

      • JohnH

        DC probably views it as a me me me grab.

        • anonymous

          Ha. Given my income and the amount of money I pay in taxes, I should be entitled to a freakin’ VPP. I’m the kind of resident DC is banking on (quite literally)- a decently-paid millennial who pays into the system and barely takes anything out of it. Cut me a break.
          .
          Also, why the discrimination against renters? Just owning a condo somehow exempts me from the DL requirement. Seems unfairly punitive to renters.

          • Ivoted4kodos

            Cute. Millennials of DC, you were long ago preceded by many, many before you. You will probably leave as soon as your kids hit middle school.

          • ah

            Because owners pay property tax directly to the city. Renters don’t.

          • anonymous

            Ah, I respectfully disagree with that argument. Part of my rent is going towards paying my landlord’s property taxes. I am paying into the system whether I own or rent. A VPP should not be tied to home ownership. If you’re going to come up with this crazy DL requirement, homeowners should not be exempt. At the end of the day, though, this is about making money. They’ll let the Georgetown owner class, who have DLs in New York or abroad, off the hook.

          • anon

            Yeah, not directly, but that hefty rent payment for sure covers your landlord’s property taxes – otherwise, the landlord isn’t doing it right.
            .
            And, while I always get a license where I live, even when a student, I do recognize that there are times people live in two places legitimately for a variety of reasons. No idea if OP has such a reason or not, they didn’t say.
            .
            But I agree with anonymous that if you pay income tax in DC, you should be entitle to a parking pass for visitors, whether you have a DC driver’s license or DC ID, or not. I think the issue is that DC has no way of knowing if you are driving a car registered elsewhere, so this license requirement is a ham-fisted way of trying to deal with that situation – which really has nothing to do with parking for visitors. (I mean, really, plenty of people own a home here but live elsewhere – and yet they are allowed to have a parking pass for visitors, apparently. Someone who works and pays income taxes here has at least as much a right to have visitors park than an absentee homeowner.)

          • JohnH

            I don’t care about renting vs owning, how much money you make and how few services you use. You still should be a full fledged D.C. resident to receive D.C. benefits. Being a D.C. resident isn’t an ala carte service.

  • Rich

    DC truly the whining capital of the world. It’s not a big deal to stand in line for awhile to get free parking.

    • Anon

      I’ve had to go to the DMV three times in eight years, and my total wait time for all three has probably been…8 minutes? I’m sure people have horror stories, but this is something DC does pretty good with.

  • ivoted4kodos

    To the OP: If you lived on my street I’d rat you out in a heartbeat because I suspect you are incredibly irritating to deal with on other issues.

    • HaileUnlikely

      Are you going to hire a private investigator to follow OP around and try to catch him or her in the act of driving? Because unless the OP is driving, nothing that the OP has described is per se illegal.

      • Ivoted4kodos

        It’s cute that you think that’s how this works. If you live in a neighborhood and you see a car w/ out of state tags parked somewhere regularly, it’s pretty obvious. In addition the city does employ investigators to look into this kind of fraud.

        • HaileUnlikely

          I have no basis to question the OP’s assertion that the OP does not have a car. (I also don’t care.) My point is that not updating one’s ID is not itself an offense, because one is not required to possess ID at all if one does not drive.

          • Ivoted4kodos

            But you want a VPP, and how exactly are you planning to prove your identification?

          • HaileUnlikely

            You’re all mixed up. I have a DC driver’s license and own a house that has a driveway; I have a VPP yet don’t even need it. I have no stake in this. I just wanted to point out that you are threatening to “report” somebody for what you incorrectly believe is an offense but in fact is not one.

          • Ivoted4kodos

            You are all over this thing, so I’m gonna just let you play.

        • textdoc

          Can we stop using the word “cute” as a sarcastic way of dismissing other people’s arguments?

          • Anonymous

            Can we stop saying “we” when we mean “you”?

    • Anonymous

      +100
      The DC311 app in Adams Morgan is filled with people ratting out-of-state plated cars parked in residential-only zones. And yes, those cars do get ticketed!

  • TJ

    I’m going to pile on:
    You are supposed to get a DC license within 5 days of moving here. Five days is silly, but why haven’t you already done so? It obviously will make it easier to be a DC resident. Where do you pay taxes?

    • textdoc

      Not 5 days — 30 days.

      • TJ

        glad they changed that. It really did use to be 5 days…and not just for a driver’s license.

        • Ivoted4kodos

          When was it 5 days? When I moved to DC in 2000 it was still 30, and I moved with my car & license to boot.

  • notconvinced

    If you live in DC, you should have DC identification — what’s the issue here?

    Why would you be an exception to this?

  • Ally

    You can also get a DC ID Card, which may work for the requirement but wouldn’t require you to change your license.

  • Anonymous

    I actually really agree with this change. Good job, DC.
    .
    Additionally, I do NOT agree that college students should get the VPP. Why? Because their car would be registered with ROSA as out-of-state and then use the VPP on their own car to skirt paying the temporary RPP fee. It’s all about arbitraging the rules. Furthermore, if you have an out-of-state license I can guarantee that this strongly correlates with having an out-of-state plated car. Which, again, can be arbitraged via getting the car registered into the ROSA database and then using the VPP with your own vehicle.
    .
    Glad to see that the DC DMV has wised up to this scheme. Get a DC license or a DC ID if you want the VPP. It’s not rocket science.

    • minimalist

      I used a VPP to park on the street and got a warning ticket on the 30th day that I needed to register my car in DC.

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