Mayor Muriel Bowser and Dan Silverman, Prince of Petworth at District Larder Co. 821 Upshur Street, NW
Back in 2007 I sat down with a young ANC Rep running in a special Ward 4 Council election – Muriel Bowser. She won that race and the rest is history as they say. And what a history it has been given the incredible times we have experienced. I thought it would be fun to take a little walk back down memory lane to share some memories from the last 19 years, particularly the last 12 years as mayor. I didn’t intend this to be an Isaac Chotiner style interview, rather I was looking to learn about what it was like to be Mayor as DC experienced tremendous tumult from the super lows of pandemic lockdowns to the super highs of sports championships and the return of the Washington Commanders to their rightful home in Washington, DC.
While history was the primary focus, of course, I asked about the future – for the first time find out what Muriel Bowser plans to do after her term ends.
We met at the wonderful District Larder Co. on Upshur Street in Petworth which back in 2007 was home to Domku, where we met the first time.
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity. Any errors in the transcript are mine alone as I’ve learned that my transcription software is not quite as good as I thought it would be, God help me. Anyway, it’s better than when I had a manual cassette recorder back in 2007…
Without further ado, my chat with Madam Mayor, Muriel Bowser:
Prince of Petworth (PoP): So, 2007, you and I sat down because you were an ANC rep at the time. And there was a special election for Ward 4 Council. Correct. You remember?
Mayor Bowser (MB): I remember very well.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): And I remember what you said that the neighborhood needed. You said the neighborhood needs a grocery store. The neighbors want places where they can go out to eat and sit down and not have to drive.
Mayor Bowser (MB): Yes. And now, look, at Ward 4. Yes. We have all those things.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): What happened between 2007 and let’s say 2012? Before you became mayor. Let’s start with the council.
Mayor Bowser (MB): Oh, gosh, you’re gonna make me draw a line of demarcation. Well, probably then, especially for Petworth, we open the Petworth Safeway, which was a big, big concern in the neighborhood, as you remember, they called it the Stinky Safeway. And it is remarkable for a lot of reasons because at the time, Safeway hadn’t really done their urban, what they call their urban model, and we really pitched it and pitched it hard. We worked hard on it. And it happened. They now have 1st floor housing above that’s part of a great residential development right on Georgia Avenue. So that was important for Petworth to people start to believe in it. And you saw it’s like the still, when I go in there, it’s a melting pot of the neighborhood and it’s well supported by the neighborhood.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): I did want to ask you more about Upshur Street because when I come here, I have to stop every 5 feet and go, wow, what was that? How do you help achieve stability in an area, there have been a number of restaurants openings and closings, what can you do to aid them so there isn’t turnover every 2 or 3 years.
Mayor Bowser (MB): It’s what the government could do. Let me tell you that, because I think there are a lot of twists and turns in the restaurant business and what restaurateurs do, but what they crave is public policies that work for them, not against them. And that’s what we have really been focused on. And the last several years, they’ve been hit with a lot of a lot of changes and they’ve had a lot to react to. But I have to say they’re one of the most resilient bunches I’ve ever seen. And, you know, if there was a perfect public policy world, there are restaurants that open and close. And they operate on very narrow margins, but if you change the way they have to pay people, or you change the permits that they have to get, or you change something else about their street, and what we’ve seen if you change their customers… That can have a really negative impact.
There’s always going to be a push or pull for Should this spot be housing? Should it be a restaurant, or should it be some other neighborhood serving retail? And oftentimes the markets dictate that.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): While we’re on the subject of restaurant, do you have a favorite current restaurant?
Mayor Bowser (MB): I don’t talk about my favorite. I love all DC restaurants.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): What we’ve experienced in DC over the last 12 years has been extraordinary. At what point did you realize that the pandemic was going to be a serious, serious issue? Not just a minor health issue?
Mayor Bowser (MB): That’s a great question. It wasn’t when I declared the emergency. I knew it was serious. It was really a struggle for me to wrap my head around having to shut down the city. But I believe in science and I listen to the experts and I believe that my first job was to protect people and save lives. But it was a struggle. It’s very hard. You know we had to shut down schools. To tell workers to go home and work these were all very hard decisions, but I know looking back that they saved lives.
I knew it was very serious when we started getting and seeing, really seeing the reports of what was happening in New York City. It kind of became real. We could see that we’re dealing with something that is really taking down all of our systems, our defenses. How can we protect people? So I think sometime after I declared the emergency and just listening to what was happening in other places that were first hit, had us racing, and then we got, at one point, we got a really dramatic estimate of what the death toll could be in D.C. And so everything that we did was to preserve life.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): And the city Department of Health, DC Department of Health, was very good at releasing a document every afternoon, almost every afternoon, that listed who got sick, how many people died etc. So it’s one week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a month, 2 months. How are you processing that information when there’s one day when 50 people get sick, 100 people? There were there were points when I was reporting these numbers and as a as a citizen I’m like, oh my God, what is happening? So as the mayor, when you’re reading those same numbers, how do you process that as a as a mayor and as a person?
Mayor Bowser (MB): Well by just having put together a government of the right people. I had extreme confidence in our leadership at DC Health, Dr. La Quandra Nesbit is outstanding. Our ability to organize in a emergency posture is outstanding. And I, you have to remember my experience with COVID is different than yours, probably, because I did, I was at work every day in person. And so I was working. I think a lot of people who were at home processing this information all day, every day. It was different for them. I’m managing an emergency and focused on the task at hand. And of course, there are many times when it’s was overwhelming but I lead well in a crisis.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Well, taking a difficult situation and making it even more complicated was when the Black Lives Matter protest happened within that time period when there were still lockdowns and people still didn’t know what was going on with the health concerns and health risks. So you’re navigating COVID in and of itself. And then, all of a sudden, DC becomes one of the epicenters for protests. I want to understand from the person who was in charge at the time and you’re getting reports of hundreds and then thousands of people that are coming. How were you planning for this?
Mayor Bowser (MB): Well, my team was already operating in an emergency posture for COVID, and, um, we may we used a similar, and when I say that, it probably doesn’t mean a lot to you, but it gives me the ability to make decisions quickly, make hiring decisions, procurement decisions, whatever we need fast. And that’s what happened in our response. We were led by a very great police chief keeping the city safe. That time period was very volatile in the city and I don’t know if people realize how fast the city can go up in flames and lose control. People are very hurt and angry, and sometimes non-peaceful people get mixed in. And so we had a lot of concerns about the city at that time.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Speaking of concerns, you’ve been mayor under a few presidents. What is it like being the mayor of a city, of the capital of the United States, and working with different presidents? What was it like working with the presidents in general and then working with the presidents during crisis?
Mayor Bowser (MB): I’ve worked with three presidents including two terms of President Trump. And so it just depends. When I was first elected there was President Obama. During Biden we had the pandemic, and also during the first Trump term. And so it’s all been different. It’s all been different. It’s much better, obviously, when there’s no problems. I always say we approach the president and the Congress the same way, no matter who it is. This is who we are. This is what we’re about. We take care of ourselves, leave us alone. Like, that’s those are kind of the prongs of all of my discussions.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): What, was there something beside, you know, not on the scale of the pandemic or the Black Lives Matter protests that that surprised you? Where you said, wow, I had no idea…
Mayor Bowser (MB): It happens all the time. Like, sometimes I say, we didn’t have this on our bingo card. Like, I don’t I don’t now I won’t be able to think of it, but it happens all the time. You’re like, what’s going on? Who could have thought of that happening?
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Since we have been blessed with incredible sports success during your tenure. If you had to pick one, which is not saying that you don’t love all of DC’s teams, what is the sport that you’re most passionate about?
Mayor Bowser (MB): Of the DC sports teams. Well, I probably follow the commanders most closely, but I’m getting very excited about the Wizards as everybody is. I tell the story all the time that I didn’t grow up with professional baseball because we didn’t have a team. I get very excited when, you know, they’re, when we’re winning, I love the home run derby. I like to follow the players. Our Mystics won a championship here, which was very exciting and the stadium that we built for them. So, you know, it’s all been, it’s all been very good, but I think the mood of the city around sports is what the story is. We like our teams and we think world-class cities have their own teams. And that’s why keeping the Wizards and the Capitals was so important to Washingtonians and to me, getting the football team back was so important. Women’s soccer is like the future. The future, the Spirit is the future. And there’s a lot of excitement about what’s happening with women and girls in sports.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): 100%. To go back to RFK and getting the Commanders back to DC. And what point, I mean, it’s always been a dream for many people that I speak with, who’ve lived in DC for many, many years. We want the Commanders back. But it almost felt like it was never going to happen. And then it happened. So can you walk us through a little bit how it happened? What, what was required for you and others to get the Commanders back to DC?
Mayor Bowser (MB): Well, I think the first thing is we had to believe and want it and never waver on it. So you say people always told you it was a dream. That wasn’t everybody who felt that way. So there was always a political back and forth, like, it wasn’t cool to support wanting the commanders back or wanting to build your stadium or be a partner in building a stadium for the city. That hasn’t been cool. So I have always, in the whole time I’ve been mayor for sure, probably as a council member said, this is what we should do. This is why it’s a good deal for us. This is what it’s going to mean for the city. Both economically, but the psychic benefits are also incredible. People want their team. And this is the path to get it done. So there were a lot of hurdles over the years. The name, the owner… You name it. There have been a lot of hurdles, but there was a time where everything came together. And we had the right owner, the name had been dealt with. And I saw an avenue, maybe unlikely one, with a partnership with our oversight chair who happened to be a Republican from Kentucky. And we decided that with a president, the Congress, there is always going to be some things that are common ground. And this was common ground for us and we worked on it. This was getting RFK. This was getting the land from the federal government. It’s 180 acres on the Anacostia. So whether you wanted a stadium or not, you wanted the land. And so we went through a lot, maybe in my book, I’ll talk about what it took to get it from the feds, between Republicans and Democrats, even. And then what it took for me to get it through the council. But here we are, and we’re going to break ground soon, and we’ll have a stadium in 2030.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): And in terms of all that land, all the acres, there has been a tremendous amount of discussion about what is the best use of that land. Again, everything comes back to housing and amenities and, you know, how does one want to live in the city? And it’s certainly such an opportunity to develop this area. Are you happy with the end result now? Are there things where you feel like you’ve compromised a little bit more on or you wish that there was something else or as is you’re happy?
Mayor Bowser (MB): No, I’m ecstatic about the development plan. We put together the best. The stadium is going to be world-class. We separated into districts of recreation districts, 2 districts for housing. So that’s amazing. I think there are some things around hiring DC residents that are be main concerned about, that the council put in place. So I think I want everybody to watch that. We love labor agreements and labor unions, but only if they hire DC residents. So I think a tragedy would be a too few DC residents being hired.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): I’m gonna dive back a little bit here in a more general question. Now, I get a tremendous amount of criticism. When I post this interview, people are going to say, why didn’t you ask this question? Why didn’t you ask that question? Okay. I gather you also received a fair share of criticism as any mayor would. I’m wondering, how do you deal with the criticism? As a person, when you’re constantly, are you reading all of the X and Twitter posts? Are you on social media? And if you are and you’re seeing what people are saying, how do you deal with it as a human being?
Mayor Bowser (MB): I don’t. I don’t try to take it all in. I am on X less now. I used to follow it all and I just don’t. I just don’t. anybody can have, um, a righteous opinion anonymously on Twitter. So I don’t take it in. I always tell people, don’t read the comments.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Well, don’t don’t hurt me. No, don’t read the comments. I have to ask you a question because my daughter is in 8th grade civics class and they came up with a question for you. So this question is from DCPS, 8th grade, civics class. They want to know if you had one more year as mayor, what would you do in your one extra year?
Mayor Bowser (MB): It is a wonderful question. Realistically, I would make sure that the children’s hospital has located and cemented their permanent home. because they have to build a new hospital. So that’s one thing I would do. I would balance the budget without raising property taxes.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): What concerns do you have as a regular citizen when you are no longer mayor? What are your fears for the future?
Mayor Bowser (MB): So I don’t wish that I was still mayor. I’ve had the just remarkable opportunity to serve for three terms. which is kind of unheard of for big city mayors, and Marion Barry did it some time ago. And so I wish that the city thrives. That’s my wish for the city. I told the members of my cabinet, I told them early on, I said, if you wish to work for the next mayor, that’s what I wish for you. And they are outstanding public servants across all of our sectors. And so I hope that, you know, and I know that I have a pretty good confidence that we’re going to have a very smooth transition. I hope that the next mayor hires outstanding people who serve with integrity and represent our city well and that we focus on how we grow. Because one thing, I wish that Doge hadn’t hit us. And the impacts have been devastating on our city. It’s been a much different last 2 years in the first 10 years because of that. And so we have to keep shifting to how we keep our residents here, attract more residents, and attract more good paid jobs. And you do that by growing. So what’s it take to keep retain people and keep and retain businesses and jobs? That what we have to be focused on. That makes sense. And then I also worry about public safety. You know, I have taken some unpopular views as it relates to making sure we have enough police officers making sure we hold people accountable who use guns or commit violence in our city. And because of that, we’re going to finish this year with historic laws and crimes.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Over the last 12 years is there one thing that you’re most proud of and accomplishing as there?
Mayor Bowser (MB): There are many things. I can’t tell you one thing. One thing that is not discussed a lot because people have like, I don’t know, they forgot, but we shut down a homeless shelter and open 7 short-term family housing or family housing shelter across all 8 wards. That is unheard of, and it was maybe one of the more difficult things I’ve ever had to like mastermind and get accomplished. And we did it.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): I think one of the one of the biggest changes, development wise, that I can remember over your terms, is just how different Navy Yard and Southwest waterfront have become. Are you are you happy with how those changes turned out?
Mayor Bowser (MB): Across the board? I mean, when I look at development, I’m always happy to see things improve. This is my philosophy. Things don’t stay the same. They’re going to get better or they’re going to get worse. And so making investments in neighborhoods and seeing things improve is important. I think there, when I look at the wharf, I’m ecstatic. It’s like we reclaim land there, these piers, these activations, destinations, perform one of the best areas of the nation during COVID, how it performed and rebounded. Navy art similarly. I think that we still have some parcels to develop there. And one important one, I think, is going to make a big difference for the Navy yard and making sure we stay on top of all the public safety issues.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): There’s been a lot of talk about Haines Point and East Potomac Park and the president redeveloping the public golf course into a more exclusive one taking up some if not all of the park land. Is there something that the city can do to fight this even though it is on federal land? If so, what can the city do to help ensure that that area remains open to the public and for the greater good?
Mayor Bowser (MB): I think the biggest thing that we have to do, and what I have worked very hard to do is making sure we have open communications and relations with the federal, all the agencies that control land here. East Potomac Park is a national park. It is not a DC park. It’s a national park. And so we need to keep those lines of communication open. And citizens should do what they can do when it comes to filing lawsuits and the light, which there is an active one now. My strong view is that we need a new golf course at Hayes Point. We need a new one in Rock Creek. hey all need to be rehabilitated. What East Potomac also needs is a road. And you can have a world-class golf course and a road.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): For the runners and the joggers.
Mayor Bowser (MB): Not just for them, but for people who drive so that they can enjoy the park or for people who walk to the playground, like I do, like I have done with my daughter. And so I think it’s a mistake just to talk about East Potomac Park as a cyclist haven. Because if you’re like me, you grew up at East Potomac Park going to a barbecue. So don’t don’t forget them. when you’re advocating for a park. I think what I’ve heard is that people want to include everybody. They want to have the fishermen, the barbecue. Absolutely. The runners and joggers, and the golfers. It can be a road and a park.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Okay, so I wasn’t going to ask about this, but now I’m just curious is the bike lane infrastructure, which has grown a tremendous amount over your terms. You can ask one person and they’ll say it’s the greatest thing ever. I can bike to work now. I don’t have to drive or metro or whatever. And then on the flip side, you have people who say, it’s driving me crazy (no pun intended.) I’m losing parking spots. I’m getting stuck behind slow cyclists. Were you involved in the bike lane infrastructure? I mean, there were tremendous debates about this. I’m just curious, did that go up to your level? How did you process the pros and cons?
Mayor Bowser (MB): We built a lot of bike lanes, yes.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): So how did you persuade the opponents that bike lanes were actually good for the city?
Mayor Bowser (MB): We have a network and have studied where the gaps are and trying to fill those gaps. And as you say, we’ve built so many miles of protected bike lane. It’s never enough for the cyclist. If you had any bike lanes, it’s too much for some. So there has to be a balance. Here’s here’s the rub. All the easy ones have been done. The only ones, the only gaps remaining to be filled involve some conflict. And the other thing about it is sometimes we haven’t gotten it right. What I have tried to do with DDOT and leadership and all the people that work for me is, you can’t be an activist planner. Because your job is to plan, not in to make sure that you’re suggesting projects that work for everybody, not just for one particular point of view. And so that’s sometimes where it can get sticky. And I think that we have some opportunities to do that better. I remember one walk we did in a neighborhood and the neighbors were, I mean, they were livid. They were hot about this. About some proposals. I can see in their minds that they’re closed to hearing what people are saying. You come up with some reasonable solutions. You’re gonna win a lot of people over. So I think as long as we approach that most people on both sides have their reasonable moments. And so we need to find that space and time moments. I had to make one major reversal on bike lanes and I feel strongly that it was the right decision. But all of the other dozens of projects that have happened, I believe, have made the city safer. I mentioned in my first inaugural address, finishing the Metropolitan Branch Trail, which is was a more for priority for many, many years. And the progress we’ve made on that branch is incredible. That is a huge accomplishment.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): One last question about the future. So if you’re writing a book, maybe. We’ll keep an eye out for that.
Mayor Bowser (MB): Maybe, maybe.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Have you have you thought about what what do you want to do as a private citizen? Do you think, you know, I need to take a little break and then maybe one day I’ll come back to government?
Mayor Bowser (MB): Okay, listen, let me stop you. I am not running for anything. You know, somebody asked me recently, like, said it to me, you can move to Maryland and run for this. So that’s like, why would I do that? So, no, I’m not running for anything. I’ve been in government my whole career except 2 years. Right. So expect to see me in the private sector.
Prince of Petworth (PoP): Can we expect that you’ll stay in, in your house and you’re gonna stay in D.C. or will you explore all options?
Mayor Bowser (MB): DC will always be my home base.