Thursday Question of the Day – Are You Considering Moving Due to the Prospect of a Trump Presidency?

Photo by PoPville flickr user Jordan Barab

Since Friday is a Federal Holiday and I’ll be in no shape to do anything after the 10 year anniversary party let’s push up the discussion a day. And hopefully folks have had a bit more time to digest the election results because I’ve been hearing some folks talk about moving away from DC as a result and I’m wondering how widespread and how serious that sentiment is? I know there was a lot of frustration yesterday but I’m also curious how serious some people are about looking for new jobs? Some have been tongue and cheek about “moving to Canada” but are any federal employees, or otherwise, considering packing up from the District? Do you think this will change/slow down the massive population growth the District has been seeing?

252 Comment

  • I’ve been considering the possibility of living abroad since I retired; this is the push I needed to just do it. On a related note: any recommendations for a good property management company/person to handle renting out my condo?

    • To handle renting of your condo by an agency, if they are legit they will require you to get the legally required Basic Business License. An elderly friend with six joint replacements wanted to rent out her apartment for six months. They told her they could get it for her for a $300 fee or she could do it herself. She did which she described as agony. Several hours each sitting in DCRA and OTR offices, and a drive to Anacostia to finish the process. One other nasty detail, you have to declare that you do not owe DC over $100. This can be a real problem if you have disagreements with OTR or DMV you are trying to resolve. One of the issues I ran on this election was eliminating the BBL for anyone grossing less than $250,000 and only requiring a few hours of tax preparation training for handling business monies. Since there are many people, especially elderly, who now have vacant rooms in their homes, this would help the lack of low and moderate cost housing in DC. G. Lee Aikin, former At Large Council candidate, 2016, Statehood Green Party.

      • Lee – I just had to go through the renewal process for my BBL (I have a studio rental in my home), and it was pure hell. My prior license expired – yes, it is my fault, though of course the city never sent a renewal notice. After spending over $600 in fines (for a few months of not renewing), and the couple hundred standard fee, the city then kept telling me they had mailed it to me, though I never received it. Three times they claimed to have mailed it, and they would argue with me. Finally, I have received it, but why are folks with one (even two) rental apartments treated to the same onerous BBL requirements as real businesses with thousands/millions in income. Your proposal makes real sense – but nothing that makes sense ever get adopted here. And, this is why folks decided to just not try to follow the requirements. Thank you for your post and you idea.

      • What? We got a BBL for our house and yeah it wasn’t fun, but only because we failed the inspection the first time. Fixed the issues and passed!

        • For me the process was tedious but manageable, but during the inspection the inspector cited problems which, when compared against the rules, weren’t to be required. We fixed them anyway, because what was the choice? But it was a few hundred we shouldn’t have been asked to spend.

    • I got a BBL. No problem – pay the fee, fill out the form, have the inspection.

    • I would recommend Nomadic Real Estate, they are a family run business and have a unique approach that I saw differed from other property management companies.

    • We used Rent Jiffy for our BBL and COO inspection – totally worth it. For management, we were happy with Nest.

    • We have been out of DC for the past 3 yrs and we use Nest DC as our property management company. We like them, and they’ve been pretty helpful. They suggested rent jiffy to help with initial license application.

  • No. Of the many reasons why I might eventually move, election results is not one.

    • Not to mention you’re still an American. Just because you go move to Costa Rica doesn’t mean you have found new rights (and quite frankly, most other places in the world you can go move to and live in have less fundamental rights than Americans).
      If this election proves one thing, it’s that Americans are so locally/regionally living in bubbles. Look at any of the maps of any states with the election results.
      While it may not have ended up on “our” side (since 90% of DC voted for Clinton), this election shows how big of a gap there is in this country and both parties are at fault. Trump tapped into working class, less-educated white people who feel they are missing out on this country. He did so in quite a controversial fashion no doubt (and some unrealistic promises) – but you look at Western Wisconsin for an example – an area of the state that voted for Obama. It voted for Trump, not by 1 point, but by 5, 7, 10+ points. There certainly is plenty of questionable support within Trump’s camp, but that group of people who went from voting for Obama to voting for Trump – I’m not gonna lump them as racists. And Hillary was very focused on ginning up her support from African-Americans, young people, etc. – in urban areas, she never even visited Wisconsin. Wisconsin isn’t a state Democrats pull off cause of that demographics – like Illinois.
      Clinton obviously tapped into educated whites, minorities and young people. These were people that Trump basically said “screw them” and I’m gonna win by revving up everyone else. However, her campaign was never worried about shoring up the weakness of support from groups that have been at least somewhat favorable to Democrats in states like Michigan and Wisconsin (and quite frankly, she only won Minnesota by 1%). Instead, they started eyeing Georgia, Arizona, etc. – like come on. And quite frankly, if they didn’t spend so much time in NC (which didn’t even vote Obama twice) and spent that time in Michigan/Wisconsin, she’d be President.
      We’re in a situation where we basically have two different worlds within a country. Democrats have done better and have favorable Electoral College positioning because they have appealed to a broader swath of these two worlds of voters – the white (often) union blue-collar workers included. They weren’t included this year and it turned out to be a fatal mistake for the Clinton campaign. It’s obviously easy to Thursday Morning QB after an election – but you shouldn’t be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a campaign and somehow miss this stuff. All she had to was hold most of Obama’s 2012 states – instead she started going after states that are a tease for Democrats, but aren’t quite there. Maybe the campaign knew this stuff and figured they had a better shot at revving up a more diverse North Carolina than trying to appeal to Mich/Wisconsin, but I have a hard time believing that (especially considering how close both were).

      • “this election shows how big of a gap there is in this country and both parties are at fault. Trump tapped into working class, less-educated white people who feel they are missing out on this country.”
        This is the crux of the election. These people, for whatever reason, didn’t feel as though HRC spoke for them, and Trump did. We can debate whether that will turn out to be accurate (I think it’s nuts, personally), but there it is. People who 20 years ago would have been died-in-the-wool labor unionists voted for billionaire real estate developer because the felt he was more sympathetic to their issues.
        On another note, there’s certainly a racial component in play, though I’m hesitant to characterize it as racism. Imagine you’re a high school educated what person in the rural Midwest, and just got laid off from your second (part time) job because there’s not enough work. You need that second job to make ends meet, and you’re worried about making your mortgage payment, and your primary employment isn’t looking so secure either. Now you hear on the national media, repeatedly, that all white people are privileged. That we know it’s true is irrelevant to this discussion – it doesn’t do anything to ease your anxiety, and I imagine it makes you pretty angry.
        I’m not suggesting this was the defining factor in this election – there were a multitude of things at play. But that fact remains that traditional constituencies deserted HRC, and it’s too easy to attribute it all to racism, sexism, and misogyny. That would be a grave disservice to future efforts to get democrats elected.

        • HaileUnlikely

          I am also hesitant to characterize it as racism. Clinton lost many many precincts in which President Obama dominated. I suppose there is some convoluted argument that people who voted for Obama voted against Clinton because of racism, but I’m neither smart enough nor interested enough to follow such an argument.

          • I think being “hesitant” may even be an understatement, if only because the exit polls show a surprising (truly surprising) diversity of Trump supporters. This of course does not negate the very real ultra nationalist side of the conservative wing. According to CNN’s analysis of the exit polls, (58% of Whites voted for trump, 37% Clinton. 30% of Latinos and Asians voted for Trump, 65% voted for Clinton, respectively. 32% of “other race” voted for Trump, 56% Clinton. This election was many things, and failing to recognize that the whole middle part of country has legitimate (I hope) concerns is one of them.

          • Well, there’s no doubt that there was some stoked voting going on (although you can argue there was also pro-Clinton “stoked’ voting based on Trump’s comments). However, the external concern for Clinton was turnout. In the end, that wasn’t the problem. The turnout was fine, it was the people (mostly outside of urban areas) that connected to the economic message.
            Looking at PA – the turnout/margin in Philly was very similar to 2012. The three suburban counties surround Philly: Chester – Clinton won by 9 points, Romney beat Obama by 1; Montgomery – Clinton won by 21 points, Obama beat Romney by 14; Bucks – Clinton won by a little less than 1%, Obama won by just a hair over 1%.
            However, she lost Erie County in the NW corner of the state by 2%. Obama won that county in 2012 by 17%. That county alone certainly didn’t make the difference – but it shows how there was a disconnect on the economic message – especially considering it’s not like 2012 was a great economic situation that Obama was running on. However, Romney was painted as not being a supporter of the working class. Clinton didn’t work to de-bunk Trump’s economic record, but chose the temperament subject (which people agreed with, but still voted for him).
            And again, aside from that – it’s also about where you spend your time. Going back to the 2012 race – if she held on to just MOST of Obama’s states, she would have been fine. Spending all of this time in North Carolina for example – Obama didn’t even win it in 2012. She went to Philly a number of times leading up to the election. But she didn’t canvas the state like Trump did (and not saying she needed to do 5 events a day – she had from July-November). If she spent most of the time she spent in NC, FL and Ohio in PA, Wisconsin and Michigan – she would be President today. Again, easy to QB after the fact, but she focused on expanding the map more than shoring up the map.

          • “This election was many things, and failing to recognize that the whole middle part of country has legitimate (I hope) concerns is one of them.”

        • I think there’s obviously two things to look at:
          1. Trump knew this and tapped into it. His promises of attacking trade deals, bringing back jobs to America, getting rid of Hispanics to give you your jobs back, etc. – they are not realistic (particularly bringing back jobs). Now that is hard to combat – similar to Hillary/Bernie when it came to free college education – Sanders’ plan sounded great, but it involved states agreeing to pay for it, when you know Republican controlled states will not. She was trying to be realistic about it, but it sounded negative. Basically she is a center-left moderate and showed how bad it is to be a moderate in this election (the Senate in the last just 5-10 years has lost most moderates).
          2. Clinton did a pretty poor job of exposing Trump’s economic message. Obviously the easy bait was all of Trump’s insensitive comments on various groups of people – but at the same time, ever since the NYT leak of the portion of the tax return, the last basically month of the campaign there was hardly any mention of taxes. Trump championed tearing up trade agreements and bringing jobs back from overseas – yet his own products were all made overseas. Clinton did a good job of hammering on this after the convention, but then it went away. She brought it up again once very effectively in a debate – and boosted her numbers, but then it went away again.
          Trump is a walking contradiction. The Clinton campaign instead of tearing down his economic record just focused on his derogatory comments. I mean it’s almost unfair how many horrible things you can go after him on, it almost makes it confusing sadly enough. But the economic message was working for Trump – and the Clinton campaign instead of trying to tear up HIS economic message, they chose mostly to focus on the temperament issue. Which, is certainly fair, and won a lot of votes, but Trump won Michigan/Wisconsin because of straight up because of economic messaging.

          • My thoughts exactly

          • I think most of this is spot on and agree, but really I just want to say how nice it is to see some civil, thoughtful discourse. My news feed is starkly dark in comparison, and that’s really been depressing me.
            As a first generation college grad (parents were both working class) from the midwest, I can corroborate much of this firsthand. I don’t blame those folks for being attracted to Trump’s message to help them, because they do need it and HRC didn’t do a good job speaking to them, but it’s so heart-wrenching that they bought into it (because I think it’s impossible to go back to that “golden era” of manufacturing prowess as Trump painted the picture) and particularly because they prioritized that over the sexual assault allegations, bigotry, antipathy towards veterans, sexism, terrible business practices (not paying contractors and such), corrupt business practices (Trump U and such), and so much more. I honestly think that the reason MN didn’t flip a little more red is because their education system is so strong whereas Wisconsin and Michigan have been dismantling much of their social programs in recent years.
            As for moving, I saw a headline that resonated: don’t move abroad, move to a swing state. We’ve got to get turnout up in the midterms to overturn / prevent the terrible legislation I know will be coming, painfully.

          • But you just did what the Clinton campaign did – first went to the offensive comments (we know Americans are quick to forgive – or have short memories).
            What got buried in your comments after sexual assault? Trump University (when was the last time that got mentioned leading up to election day? There’s an upcoming class action lawsuit trial coming up about it – yet it was never talked about). Stiffing (WORKING CLASS) contractors. Didn’t even mention his own products being made overseas.
            Obama won 2012 by painting Romney as not in it for the middle class in an otherwise unfriendly economic situation for his re-election bid. Clinton did it in spurts, but it was not the focus of her message. Like I said, it’s actually how many negative topics you could have focused on with Trump – and it almost made it confusing. But when your opposition is focused on economic issues and you’re talking about Access Hollywood tapes – what mattered more to people was the economic message. People overwhelming thought he doesn’t have the temperament, but a lot of those people still voted for him.

          • HaileUnlikely

            I agree with all (and identify with much) of what lizcolleena says above, and also with JohnH’s follow-up comment.

          • maxwell smart

            Here is what I don’t understand – why do we want to “go back to that ‘golden era’ of manufacturing prowess?” Shouldn’t we be focusing on research, technology and knowledge, not industrial manufacturing?

          • I think differentiating between a couple things is important:
            – rape and assault allegations are not offensive comments. That’s why I prioritized that, because in my personal opinion that is his biggest offense. I don’t appreciate his terrible business practices or the things he’s said/done about/to minorities or veterans (among many other things), but the sexual assault stuff is literally (not figuratively) giving me nightmares. A lot women are really struggling with feeling marginalized because a vote for him signifies tacit approval to us.
            – I don’t equate his terrible business practices with his empty promises. I agree his own actions don’t live up to the promises he’s made to bring jobs back to rural America but stiffing your vendors or overpromising and underdelivering to clients is different, in my mind, than the location of your factory (or all factories). Most companies manufacture elsewhere and frankly if they didn’t most Americans would be priced out of the market for their products. Basically I don’t measure companies that have moved production overseas with the same ruler as those that declare bankruptcy, don’t pay taxes, stiff vendors, etc.
            Finally I would really hope that paid campaign strategists would see the hole they’re campaign isn’t addressing and work to fill it. Perhaps HRC’s team thought they’d get by without those votes, perhaps they just missed the importance of their concerns, perhaps a lot of things. But their misstep here doesn’t mean I have to make classism my number one priority. It means I and we as a society should try to do a better job speaking to those issues, looking for solutions, empathizing, working for equality and more. Make sense?

          • HaileUnlikely

            Maxwell – find a way to package that argument in a way that is not condescending to people whose jobs went overseas and who don’t even personally know anybody who benefits in the knowledge economy and we’ll be in business. Until then, I agree with you, but that argument demonstrably won’t win elections.

          • ugh, **their

          • “Shouldn’t we be focusing on research, technology and knowledge, not industrial manufacturing?”
            When you’re 48 years old, with little or no higher education and no means to obtain it, the allure of “research, technology and knowledge” is a little hard to understand. And Haile’s point is well taken – telling the disgruntled class in the US to suck it up and focus on other things isn’t likely to be a winning strategy.

      • Costa Rica is actually a good example of a country where you do have an additional right that Americans do not have, namely the right to participate in a universal health care system and receive quality health care at an affordable price.

      • Clinton did not “tap into” educated whites. 49% of college educated whites voted for Trump.. The assumption that only a bunch of uneducated rednecks voted for Trump is a dangerous one to make, especially when thinking about future elections.

        • In my opinion, Trump tapped into the intolerant whites, educated and uneducated alike that Intolerant of minorities, of the LGBT community, of interracial couples, BLM, and progressive ideologies in addition to those that are anti-establishment, anti-Clinton, and are pro his economic policies.

          • HaileUnlikely

            I basically agree, but importantly, I would replace your “and” with an “or.” I do believe a lot of people voted for him because they were anti-Clinton or anti-Washington or because of his economic policies despite not fitting any of the other criteria (intolerant of minorities, LGBT, etc).

        • Clinton did better with college educated voters than Obama did in 2012. Among college whites, Clinton did lose those, but Obama lost them 8 points more against Romney than Clint did. And Clinton’s overall +9 point difference in overall college educated voters was wider than it has ever been going back to 1980.
          In 2012, Obama also won HS graduates and those with just some high school. This election saw Trump win those demographics by more than going back to 1980 as well. Non-college white support of Trump was 7 points higher than it was of Romney and 9 points higher than it was of McCain.
          So I’d say there is an educational divide in this country for this election, whether you’re involving race or not.

  • Come on, really? This is just as bad as the pathetic freakout that Republicans had in 2008. The world’s not going to end just because your presidential candidate didn’t win. In my 3 elections, I’ve never voted for a presidential candidate who won, but because I’m a grownup who knows that there’s more to life than politics, I didn’t let it change my life.

    • Tsar of Truxton

      I’m more scared of the fact that repubs holds all the branches of govt. It is the Ted Cruz’s of the world that scared me (and mostly on social issues) . If the Dems had at least one check in place it wouldn’t be so bad, but I am def. not moving because of it. Hopefully, Breyer, Kennedy, and RBG stay in office for four more years so SCOTUS isn’t sent back to the revolutionary times.

      • In theory they just have to hold on for 3 more years since apparently the entire last year of the President’s term doesn’t matter per Republicans….

        • Hah! Too true.
          (I don’t think Democrats should adopt the Republican thinking on that one, though.)

        • Actually, only two years. Wait for the midterms

          • Well, in terms of Supreme Court appointments, they have enough to filibuster anyone as is. I don’t think it matters if they have a slim majority or not.
            However, there are more Democratic Senate seats up for re-election in 2018 than there was this year. So they need to obviously not get wiped out there. One good piece of news from the election is Kaine will go back to the Senate.

          • The assumption has been that Senate democrats will be decimated in the 2018 midterms because of (i) the number of democratic seats available, and (ii) the typical reaction against the incumbent president. Obviously (i) has not changed, but perhaps (ii) can actually work in the democrat’s favor. As for the House – yeah, there could be a push, but the 2010 census and the R wave in state houses in reaction to Obama’s first election to a large extent baked that cake. There really aren’t too many swing districts left. The state-level 2020 elections are critically important to reverse this trend. Taking the long view, perhaps 4 years of President Trump will produce a backlash that could actually put more House seats in reach in 2022.

    • This is not the same. I was disappointed the first time w won and upset the second, but in both cases I moved on: life took over and politics was just in the background. This is different. The man in unhinged. He is unqualified, Ill informed and petty with strong authoritarian impulses. None of those things applied to w or Obama. Catastrophe is on the table.

      • maxwell smart

        +1. This is what people don’t understand. This isn’t just about that Trump won and Hillary didn’t. This is about the fact that the person who did win seriously wants to dismantle 50+ years of progress, invalidate human rights for everyone but white males, and punish anyone who stands in his way. Does that sound familiar to anyone? This is not to mention the destruction of the economy and climate. I could go on. This is bigger than he won, she lost. This is about how this has fundamentally changed what it means to be American.

        • +1.
          My hope is that he’ll have enough reasonable advisors that he won’t be able to achieve some of his scarier goals.

          • You’d hope – but he hasn’t exactly surrounded himself with the most respectful people in his campaign. Now that he’s actually President, I’m sure more people will allow themselves to be associated with him, but he’s not exactly the most respected person in NYC – so I don’t think there’s a lot of truly smart, respected people that would love to work with him…

        • Quite frankly, I don’t even know what Trump wants to do. He has literally not maintained a single position on anything. And quite frankly, I am not even convinced he actually wanted to become President, but this was something fun for him to do (he LOVES attention). I don’t think he believes a lot of what he says – but he knows it will get attention. You don’t just overnight go from believing in abortion rights to being some strict, conservative anti-abortion Republican.
          So I suppose you can argue that’s even scarier – but again, look at the last 8 years of obstruction. Democrats can make it hell for him too and they’d have a lot more power to make it hell if you show up to vote in 2018.

          • topscallop

            But can Democrats really put up that much of a resistance without control of the House or the Senate? We definitely need to do whatever we can to flip the House in two years and have some check on Trump.

          • I mean Obama had all of Congress for two years and got some stuff done, but barely.

          • Look up his “first 100 days” plans, there are lots of specifics in it.

          • I very much agree with everything you say here, JohnH. I suspect he’s surprised he actually has to do the job now. And also hope his narcissism and focus on attention hurt him in trying to do it.

        • I think you’re giving the office of the president way too much power.

          • I think you’re not paying attention and don’t realize he has willing participants in the legislative branch.

          • So did Obama, yet still didn’t manage to get much through (including immigration).

          • justinbc

            I’ve always found the mindset that Obama simultaneously got nothing done while also completely ruining everything quite hilarious.

          • maxwell smart

            If there was at least one other branch that had a Democratic majority, such that there was checks and balances, then yes. However that is not the case and Republicans have shown they will follow suit with whatever Trump says or does.

          • The office of the president has way more power than it was designed to and that it used to, thanks to both parties acquiescing when they had the presidency and an opposition Congress. As a limited government advocate, I welcome back those on the left who are now finding they’d prefer a limited executive.

          • Political scientists have studied the Presidents’ campaign promises from the past 50 years and found that on average 67% of them were kept. I expect less from Trump because many of his policies are impractical (and as JohnH noted he doesn’t even know what his policies are half the time) but in general these guys are able to follow through with a lot of what they say they’ll do.

        • So the only people who “understand” are those peddling Chicken Little doomsday scenarios? Come on. I understand perfectly, I just disagree that the apocalyptic vision you describe is a fait accompli.
          Don’t get me wrong, Trump is a terrible choice for President, a disaster waiting to happen (especially with respect to foreign policy). But this is still a representative democracy, and there still is a system in place. The President, no matter who he is, can’t just wave his hands and return us to 1966. Let’s everyone take a deep breath.

          • HaileUnlikely

            I think a lot of those who are fomenting the hysteria now lost a lot of credibility 16 and 12 years ago freaking out over the election and re-election of George W. Bush. Without comment on the extent to which I buy into the doom and gloom, I do believe it is infinitely more warranted and understandable now than it was with Bush.

          • Well what about the discussion around the EPA though? The President can move pretty quickly to change environmental policy and we are at a very critical point in terms of mitigating effects of climate change. I mean, the scientific community is basically saying now or never. So the next four years could be pretty drastically disastrous from that standpoint.
            To be clear, I’m not advocating rioting or anything, but gearing up to fight hard for 2018 midterms and support those likeminded that will retain some power in the meantime seems super necessary. If we minimize the stakes, people (including myself) may lose their sense of urgency and not act. It’s a whole lot easier to sit on your couch than GOTV or write your reps or whatever…

          • Plus the nuclear codes. He has demonstrated he has a short temper and now will have ultimate power to nuke a foreign leader who rubs him the wrong way or snubs him or whatever. There’s no one in between him and nuclear destruction, if he were to choose that course. That’s scary!

        • Not to be the contrarian, and I truly hope that Trump doesn’t dismantle all that our President has worked to achieve, but least you forget that half this country (of those that voted) likely don’t call the Obama agenda progress. And not for nothing, that voice is loud and controls the senate, house, executive branch, and 30 some state governorships, and even more state legislatures It could be very well argued that what we call progress is not what the majority of Americans actually want or believe. Just food for thought

          • maxwell smart

            The country is very sharply divided on so many issues to the point where I seriously wonder if we are at the breaking point. Maybe this fun experiment of United States has run it’s course.

          • Should be edited to say: “what half of the Americans who *voted* actually want or believe”….also while I reluctantly agree in principle, I also want to add that many of those victories are a direct result of gerrymandering districts to favor a certain outcome.

        • +1. Excellent articulation for the anguish I feel for myself and for America. I have voted in past elections and felt disdain and disapproval for a winning candidate, but this is the first time I have ever felt fear. This man is someone who cannot stand opposition, accept failure, or admit wrongdoing. My concern is for the intolerance he has already encouraged, and the irrevocable consequences it will have on our country and on our relationships in the international community that extend well beyond his 4-year term.

          But in the face of adversity, I intend to stay. I will stay and fight for those who can’t and for myself. This is still my home, and I will not be driven away.

          • “irrevocable consequences it will have on our country and on our relationships in the international community”
            This is the type of hyperbole that is just not helpful. 70 years ago, we has just finished a devastating war with Germany and hit Japan with two nuclear bombs. They’re allies now. Irrevocable is quite a stretch.

          • maxwell smart

            They didn’t become allies overnight and I would wager to say that alliance could be dismantled very quickly.

          • Of course. But that’s the point – very little is irrevocable. Breathe, people.

    • Blithe

      Perhaps that’s because up until this point, your life hasn’t been directly changed by politics? I’m not being flippant. I am wondering if because in your own experience, your life hasn’t been directly impacted by who the president might happen to be, you’re underestimating the potential impact that a policy or a Supreme Court decision can have for others. My life and lives that I care about personally and directly changed because of Brown vs. Board of Ed. I know many people who’s lives were hugely changed because of Obamacare, and whose lives may be hugely impacted if they are unable to get insurance or are unable to afford medical insurance if Obamacare is repealed with nothing substantial to replace it.


      To my knowledge, there has been not one single report of an Obama supporter attacking a Republican who voted for either McCain or Romney. Day. Two.

  • We are seriously looking but not until the Spring. We are both pretty likely to be out of work (without getting into specifics of what we do we are pretty likely to be the first to go) we have been flirting with moving closer to family anyway. Still, after 11 years here it will be very hard to leave.

    • I’m in the same situation, although I don’t think our jobs are immediately at stake. I just don’t think I have the energy to be here through a Trump administration and I’ve been looking to move closer to my home state anyway. I also feel like the next work to be done is to make sure that great candidates are identified and fostered for the 2018 election; seems like that will be easier to do if I’m in a place with actual representation in Congress (no disrespect, Eleanor).

    • We are leaving. As long as the Trump stink is in DC, we’re not staying. Been in DC for over 30 years and our condo goes on the market in January. We haven’t decided exactly where yet but we booked a flt today to visit Montreal and take a look around. Australia will be the second trip.
      I am so ashamed and embarrassed for our country right now. I have been disappointed with past election outcomes but always accepted the results and never stressed over it. My first vote was for Jimmy Carter so I have won some and lost some. ALL past presidents, whatever their faults have been decent human beings who wanted the best for this country. Trump is not a decent human being but a crass and classless bully with absolutely nothing to respect about the man boy. Every single person who voted for Trump owns every piece of garbage that spewed from his mouth. The Access tape which was the icing on the cake should have destroyed him with any decent person. So sad to learn that half of our population are ugly Americans. I truly fear for the future of this country.

  • I’m overseas right now for work and won’t be back until Thanksgiving week. My wife and I have had some preliminary talks about what to do. We both work in the international development field and most of our projects are funded by the US government. Neither of us are comfortable working on projects that support a Trump foreign policy agenda, but of course we still need jobs. We’re going to talk about maybe finding work with foundations that raise their own money rather than use US government funds. It’s possible that such a change would require us to leave DC. Like I said, we’re both still just in the talking about it stage.

    • Leaving DC working within the federal government and leaving the country are two very different things.

      • But I’m not talking about working within the federal government, that was my point. We’re trying to find jobs in our field outside of the federal government system.

  • We both love DC, have been here 8+ years and bought our first house in Petwork this year. No, we’re not going anywhere anytime soon.

  • I’m still pretty emotional about the change. I’m not a political appointee, and I worked under 43, but I have a lot of fear about DT. In my federal job, the policy surrounding what I do will likely do a complete 180, such that I don’t know whether my conscience will permit me to continue. I could probably put my skills to work better outside government to counter the damage he’s probably going to cause. But I’m awfully torn right now. Crime and wanting to be closer to family are also factors prompting me to consider a move. I worry that if I wait too long to decide, the job market will be flooded with others in my same position looking for new work.

  • An acquaintance with a public work phone (he’s in media) received a death threat and another message saying “minorities go home”. I’m trying to be sanguine but thinking about that, the likelihood of repealing gay marriage and Roe v Wade, not to mention the 20 million people about to lose access to health care, is making it very hard to feel good about the situation. My employer is headquartered in Canada and I’m looking.

  • My brother’s lived in Canada for decades. It’s tempting. But I refuse to give up my country to that piece of pussy grabbing garbage.

    • +1 I’m staying, and standing up for what I believe, which is that this country belongs to *all* of us, regardless of race, religion, sex, you name the classification; climate change is real; and sure – America has a lot of flaws – but we’ve made a ton of progress. We don’t need to be made great again (aka, go back to when women belonged in the kitchen). I’ll do everything I can to fight any back-sliding and contribute to forward progress. Do I relish living a mile from that pussy grabbing garbage? No. Do I love DC and my neighborhood? Yes. Part of me loves that he’ll have to live in such a diverse, open, *tolerant* community. Maybe he’ll learn something.

  • No. I hope his swearing in will be drowned out by protestors when he places his tiny hand on his huge family bible. Oh will be a tiny bible so his hands appear huge.

  • Looking a little more closely at temporary overseas jobs for then next year or two but not planning on selling or moving for good.

  • jim_ed

    Not seriously considering it at this exact moment, but you better damn well believe we’re doing some contingency planning. My rational side says “ehh, we’ll make it through this” but then I read this morning that Joe Arpaio and Sarah Palin are being considered for cabinet positions and think “yeah, I can see myself dealing blackjack at a casino in Punta Del Este for 4 years”.

  • Where are you going to move? The Sunbelt? Arizona? Get real.

  • If my federal job gets cut, I may have no choice but to move.

    • Historically republicans expand the bureaucracy far more than dems. There’s no way the sequester would have been lifted under Clinton. I hate the guy, but Feds maybe better off (if incompetently led).

      • I’m with Chinatown. Republicans might expand the bureacracy, but this expansion disproportionally benefits the military/defense sector. He’s already proposed to cut programs or the entire agency of Ed, DOE and EPA.

        • Yep. I would be worried if I were with one of those 3, the IRS, and HHS (who might have Ben f’ing Carson as its Secretary).

  • People keep talking about moving to Canada but I think we would all have a greater impact if we move our blue dots INTO swing states instead of running in the opposite direction, no?

    • justinbc

      I love Vancouver and Montreal, but Canada is far too cold (for me) to consider living there for a long period of time.

    • I think some people will be surprised that Canada just doesn’t take anybody. You have to have some skills and demonstrate you will be useful.

      • Yes, it’s hard. Aside from marrying a Canadian I’d say very hard. You can come on a TN visa, but that’s part of NAFTA, which Trump wants to renegotiate or replace it so who knows what would happen to that visa. You also have to have a specific degree and job for the TN.

        • Just before the election I was summoned to do some work for a client in Canada. It’s quite a process to get the visa, and I’m worried they’ll reject it because of Trump and the NAFTA nonsense. Fingers crossed!

          • And FWIW, although my client is looking for people to work in Canada for a year or longer I’m not considering a long term position. DC/America is my home and I won’t abandon it now.

      • binntp

        +1. I looked into immigrating to Canada a number of years ago, not for political reasons but just because I like it there. As the granddaughter of a First Nations/Canadian-born Native American, I thought maybe there’d be some special Birthright Canada credit, but no dice. Not being an engineer/doctor and willing to relocate to the Yukon, I’m better off staying put.

      • It’s the height of American privilege to just assume you can pick up and move to another country if things don’t go your way at home. It’s like you didn’t notice the current refugee crisis.

  • justinbc

    100% serious about it, we began ranking destinations last night. We own 3 properties here in DC and were already planning to retire in about 10 years to travel the globe and live off the rental income, so clown shoes winning might not be the reason for leaving, but it’s certainly going to expedite the process. It will probably take a year to get everything ready to go, so we’ll have to suffer through some of the initial growing pains of his tenure, but we should be long gone by the time the country decides it’s ready for big boy pants again.

    • You own three properties in DC so you’re clearly pretty well-off. You likely wouldn’t be hurt at all by Trump’s administration, and it’s hysterical, establishment libs of this stripe who totally missed the mark on what the average American actually needs or cares about

      • justinbc

        Trump’s economic policies would almost certainly benefit me, assuming they were actually attainable (which basically every economist has indicated they are not). However, I care about a lot more than economics, and what he has planned from a societal standpoint I can not just lackadaisically accept the same way I accept tax rate changes. You know how people always say “vote with your wallet”? That’s what I’m doing. As I said, we were planning to leave eventually anyway, this is just the push we needed.

        • “However, I care about a lot more than economics, and what he has planned from a societal standpoint I can not just lackadaisically accept the same way I accept tax rate changes.” Thank you for articulating this.
          Many of us vote for what we think would be best for the entire country — not what would be best for us personally.

          • And trotting off to “see the world” as a valid means of protest is the ultimate one-percenter liberal fantasy.

          • “Trump’s economic policies would almost certainly benefit me, assuming they were actually attainable (which basically every economist has indicated they are not). However, I care about a lot more than economics,” and “Many of us vote for what we think would be best for the entire country — not what would be best for us personally.”
            Both of these are absolutely true. But it’s interesting that when a low income day laborer in western PA votes for Trump, or Romney, or McCain, or Bush, or Toomey, etc., we don’t view it the same way. We wonder why he’s voting against his economic interest, or assume that he’s doing it because he’s a racist, or a cretin, but pat ourselves on the back for doing the same thing. It’s be nice if we gave others the benefit of the doubt we afford to ourselves.

          • HaileUnlikely

            Agreed with dcd. This is important. I suspect that may have won significant support from people who wouldn’t have otherwise voted for Hillary but might have otherwise stayed home or voted for Mickey Mouse or Harambee, but voted for Trump to spite Hillary because they believe, quite correctly, that Hillary and the kinds of people who support her look down on them.

          • HaileUnlikely

            Apologies for key omitted word: “I suspect that *Trump* may have won significant support from…”

          • justinbc

            @dcd, I can’t speak for others, but I absolutely do that, and have to constantly remind my liberal friends that “voting against your interests” is something both sides take part in regularly. It’s part of having a political system with so many arms and legs that it’s impossible to always be on one side of things.

          • I confess, I have to remind myself to do this. I don’t understand, at all, the significant percentage of Hispanics who voted for Trump, for example. But you’re right – there are lots of issues in play, and I never agree (or disagree) with one candidate on everything.

    • Retiring and traveling the globe sounds great right about now.

    • In a similar boat as you, except our plans were to retire and travel in 4-6 years. Already starting the process to speed the move up. Spouse is from another country that’s stable and open so I am fortunate that visas won’t be an issue where we plan to eventually settle. I love DC with all my heart, and it’s more about leaving the country that did this than about leaving the city he’ll occupy. I admire those vowing to fight. I do think this country will move closer to its ideals over the long term, but as I said sticking around was never in the plans for me anyway. I realize how fortunate I am to be able to type all this.

    • So you are concerned about His policies and your plan is to give up and move away. How about you volunteer your time more to help the people you feel are being underserved by our government.

      • justinbc

        I’ve done my time volunteering, advocating, and fighting for causes. I’m retiring, other people are welcome to stay behind and fight all they want. That’s also what we elect people for, to fight on our behalf when we can’t or won’t. This isn’t a world with only two choices, flee or fight, there’s a whole spectrum in between. As long as our political system is dependent upon funding campaigns I’ll continue sending my resources back here to the people I feel best represent my values, like Corey Booker in 2020.

        • Don’t come back. Don’t send money. If you aren’t willing to live here anymore, don’t try and influence this country from somewhere else then return when it is “desirable” to do so. Coward.

          • justinbc

            I have no desire to return, that doesn’t mean I stop caring about my family and friends who live here. You know, the whole patriotism thing you were drolling on about below? Your belief that there’s only one way to view or influence the world is part of what cost you the election.

  • I feel like it’s going to continue to grow. Real Estate and Jobs will grow as well, considering President Trump has experience in business/economics. I think many people will just end up staying, some finding new jobs, some switching different professions, or going to school/back to school.
    They just need more time to adjust to the Trump administration. Seems like it’ll be some interesting times ahead. People just need to give him a chance to succeed as President.

    • maxwell smart

      Glad you have faith… I actually see jobs declining, especially in DC. I’m VERY worried I will be unemployed within the first year of his term.

      • I disagree horribly with his policies, but I agree DC may boom. We would have been facing paralysis with four years of Clinton and a republican congress.
        The appointees will suck, but in the past crappy appointees are pretty much powerless because civil servants are so hard to fire. This is horrible for nationwide policy objectives, but money will pour into DC. Plus the 2018/2020 efforts will generate massive amounts for dem political consultants.
        Professionally, the Clinton administration would have been a closed shop for those on the outside. This is a great oppotunity for young ambitious dems to get in on the next phase of the party.

        • But Trump wants to make it easier to fire civil servants…my (naive?) hope is that once he realizes that federal workers are now his employees, employed to execute his vision, that his stance will moderate.

        • maxwell smart

          See, I think a lot of young, educated, upwardly mobile people moved to DC over the last 8 years because they were excited about Obama and wanted to be involved in his vision for the country and the future. A lot of those jobs, I fear, will be slashed within the first year – clean energy, technology, sciences, etc. If these people leave, so will jobs, like mine, in design as there will be less need for housing, creative working spaces, bars, restaurants, etc.

    • I’m glad you have faith. That isn’t shared by economic experts. The likely outcome of his policies is a recession. The country will learn through experience since they’re tired of “experts”.

    • topscallop

      Yes, his experience in business includes having the products for his hotels made in China and refusing to pay people for the work they’ve done. So glad to have such an experienced businessman in charge.

  • To answer the final question in the writeup (do you think this will change/slow down the massive population growth) I’d say absolutely yes. One of his goals for his first 100 days specifically says to freeze federal hiring, and whatever the “Clean Up Corruption in Washington Act” is going to be. These things definitely won’t be pulling in more people to work in the government.
    As for moving, Mr. Eggs and I were already planning to move away spring 2018. Depending on if my job is affected, we may look at moving sooner than that I suppose. We’ll be taking our votes to an important swing state so there’s that at least!

    • “One of his goals for his first 100 days specifically says to freeze federal hiring” — That’s pretty important; thanks for the reminder.
      Those of us who’ve worked in agencies that had temporary hiring freezes know what a pain it is when people leave and their positions can’t be filled. It’s not like the volume of work magically decreases, so instead there’s the same amount of work and fewer people to do it.

    • The problem for him is that pols quickly realize it’s easier to make your mark by creating new agencies vs firing people. I doubt the freeze or the “corruption” act (which itself would require massive new bureaucracy) will come to fruition.

  • I’ve been in DC, working on the Hill, for nine years. I’ve been contemplating moving for awhile but the possibility of working in a Clinton administration was too tempting to pass up. I’m nearing burnout anyways and am just tired of the fights, so this might just be the catalyst I need.

  • skj84

    I’m staying and I’m raising hell. We can’t run away, but work on solutions to minimize damage and make sure this never happens again.

    • Bingo – Democrats struggle because they give up. For example, Obama was elected with a wave of Democratic support within Congress in 2008. In 2010, he lost everything in Congress basically because many of those same voters who elected Obama didn’t vote in 2010.
      The best thing you can do if you’re pissed right now is to fight for 2018.

      • Yes, this is actually the silver lining AND WTF for me. Only 25% of people actually voted for Trump! Almost 50% didn’t vote, and that is the problem. People either stayed home or skipped the presidential ballot and voted for the rest.

        • justinbc

          Apparently some 15,000 people voted for Harambe. The electoral process needs a complete overhaul.

          • This is appalling, but not a “process” problem, just an idiot voter problem. Unless the electoral process you are seeking to overhaul is the extent to which the US extends the franchise.

          • Actually, it is a process problem. Read up on how we make it much harder to vote than other developed democratic countries. They don’t make people register first; they don’t vote on a Tuesday, but on a weekend or national voting day holiday, just for starters. It’s been studied – we go out of our way to make it hard to vote in ways other countries just don’t understand.

          • None of that has anything – at all – for 15,000 morons voting for a dead gorilla. There’s no process solution to that.

          • justinbc

            Having a write-in option for POTUS is a process problem. There is no scenario where that’s needed in a system that is so inundated with rules for getting people on the ballot to begin with.

          • Definitely a process problem that can be changed: The electoral college means that votes in solid states against the prevailing opinion don’t matter (statistically and emotionally). But if a vote instead directly goes to a preferred candidate, all of a sudden that vote matters much more. A friend living in DC voted for Johnson but said he would’ve voted for Hillary if he lived in a swing state. That’s a result of the process.

          • maxwell smart

            One of the other issues with the Electoral College is that the election is decided solely based on swing states – Ohio, Florida and others – are 100% the focus of the campaign and the election. It overlooks states where the outcome is already pre-assumed. California was called for Hillary with 0% of the ballots in. Sure, it would be a surprise now if California resulted in a Republican vote, but who knows?

    • ‘Running away’ is always an option. People tend to overlook the fact that the entire nation is populated by the descendants of people who ran away from the problems they were facing in their home country.

  • Nothing wrong with moving, but I feel like if you are doing it as a protest, you can be a more effective voice for reason and tolerance by staying.

  • Well, we already moved to Canada a year ago! Moving back is always an option, and fortunately we have the option to stay as well. So, at this point we’ll def be here until 2020, possibly forever because our lives are just less stressful, the healthcare is better, and we can save a lot more.

    • Not to mention that horrible exchange rate, ehhh?

      • It doesn’t matter unless you have American bills? If you have loans back in the US, yeah it sucks, but we more than cover our mortgage with our rental income. And if we had to pay it ourselves along with our rent here we’d still be under the 30% of your income on housing WITH the exchange.

  • topscallop

    Not really, though I work in international development and am concerned there will be major cuts to my field. And in a few years when we want to start a family I’m not sure how safe I’ll feel doing that here. But I also don’t want to let him chase us away. I’d rather stay and fight for the country I believe in and try to prevent the long-term damage the new administration could cause, to civil liberties, the environment, health care access, etc.

  • If you are considering moving due to the outcome of the election you need to get a life, or more importantly, a grip on reality.

    • That’s harsh. I think a better characterization, at least for many of the feds and some of the contractors that support the feds work, is that there is now a new boss, one with a potentially different vision for how the company should run and what it produces. So considering a career move, which may involve moving, is not indicative of an unreasonable grip on reality.

  • Moving because of election results is one of the most unpatriotic things you can do.

    • justinbc

      The interesting thing about patriotism is that no one individual gets to decide what it means for everyone.

      • I would say leaving the very country that you call home is the antithesis of patriotism.

        • As the kid of an immigrant, I can’t see how this is so.

        • justinbc

          And that’s fine, you can say that, because you have your own unique vision of patriotism. Not that we all live our lives by some grand patriotic code to begin with. Trying to out-patriot someone is a futile effort, and it’s frankly something that most people never even consider in their daily life.

          • I mean this in the literal sense, not by some abstract definition you seem to be thinking of. If you permanently leave the country you call home, you are, by definition, being unpatriotic.

          • justinbc

            Sorry but you’re just wrong, because concepts like patriotism do not have tangible definitions in the same way that something like salt does. They are malleable and influenced by a multitude of factors. It’s entirely possible to live somewhere else and still love your homeland, even if you don’t love the direction it’s going.

          • Seriously? My wife is Canadian, so we chose to move for a variety of reasons and we’ll stay for a variety reasons. So because I choose to live in her country, rather than mine I’m unpatriotic?! That’s just bizarre.

        • Sorry Kingman, but you’re being an asshat to the n’th degree.
          Why are you so insistent that everyone agrees with your definition of patriotism? That’s rather authoritarian of you.

  • maxwell smart

    “Do you think this will change/slow down the massive population growth the District has been seeing?” I’m very worried this will be the case. I am very worried many jobs in government, science, technology and non-profits will be slashed, which will have a ripple effect for all industries in DC. Millennials will seek jobs elsewhere, which are the population we don’t want to lose if we want to keep growing. As someone who spent 2.5 years unemployed during the last recession and still feel the effects of 2.5 years of lost income, raises and career development, I am terrified that another recession and subsequent unemployment will do me in.

  • Seriously? People are really considering moving? What is Trump going to do that has not already occurred in last 4 years or so? We have had mass shootings of all flavors and types (lGBT, Domestic Terrorism, Foreign Terrorism), Police Involved Shootings on camera, Riots, and just division as a whole. All Trump did was pull the hood of the silent majority that is anti-everything not themselves but we already knew they existed. Trump was just bold enough to voice it and be their leader instead of covertly operating in that manner like most politicians

    • You’re forgetting that there are plenty of people in this town that work on energy and environmental conservation policies, both of which Trump has indicated will be cut. But sure, those people should stay in town, jobless, to prove a point.

      • Can’t say that I am familiar with either industry so yes forgive my ignorance and the impact of a Trump presidency on the sectors but wouldnt moving away to say a smaller city make it indeed even harder to find work?

      • +1. Also overlooking that many will now be working for him. Many people who work in public service do it for reasons that Trump doesn’t appear to share, and choose to work in the public sector for less money because they are driven by different values (e.g., inspired by the current administration). So they may decide to stop leaving money on the table and go work in the private sector because they don’t want to help execute Trump’s vision of America.

  • No, but this might very well change my professional path. I work in fundraising and have been in the arts for my whole career, but I think my next job will be at a progressive policy organization – fundraising for Emily’s List, Center for American Progress, Planned Parenthood, NOW, NARAL, etc.

  • America home of the soft and entitled. Thoughen up, this country has survived for 200+ years. Millenials stop acting like the sun won’t rise tomorrow. Your candidate didn’t win because you either didn’t rate her that highly or assumed someone else would vote for you.

    • maxwell smart

      The average age of world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. And with the country more sharply divided than ever before, with so much at stake, and a culture that has voted for hate and intolerance… I’m just going to leave it with this quote:

      “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” _Sir Alex Fraser Tytler

    • Yes because everyone who didn’t vote for Trump is a millenial.

    • Actually she did win–she won the popular vote. Trump only won the archaic, non democratic electoral college.
      Even Trump said back in 2012 that the electoral college was a threat to democracy. I never thought I would ever say that Trump was right, but he sure got that right.

  • I am moving but I made the decision before the election! I wouldn’t seriously consider moving away just because of Trump. Although I currently work next to the White House and I’m glad I don’t have to be his neighbor.

  • Absolutely not. 1.) It’s actually likely good for the people I work for, even if I can’t stomach it. 2.) No single election would ever send me away from my home. 3.) I would rather stay and fight, not run and hide. There’s no way to hide from this.

  • DC has been my home for 20 years, and I can’t imagine leaving. But I’m a fed in a small, fairly niche, easy to eliminate office that doesn’t further his neanderthal world views, so I’m seriously concerned about my job.

  • I accepted a job in Germany in October and hope to be moved before inauguration. I didn’t want to be in DC with either candidate in office, and I have been in DC for over 13 years now (how’s that for busting millennial stereotypes?). The election was just the final straw. I work for the government (and will also do so in Germany). I’m not in the policy world but I wouldn’t have felt comfortable with the policies of either.

  • HaileUnlikely

    I certainly am not considering moving out of the United States because of President Trump, but I might move out of the DC metro area for peripherally-related reasons such as fears for my personal safety.

  • If you are well off enough to even consider it… Good for you. The rest of us will continue to fight for the nation we aspire to be.

    • HaileUnlikely

      “Well off” enough to leave one of the most expensive places in the country? My family lives in an area where you can buy a house for about $30,000. I agree that there are many compelling reasons to desire to stay here, but the perception that one needs to be “well off” to leave but not to stay is complete nonsense.

      • Exactly, my husband and I have been planning to move away in early 2018 for a while now almost solely because we cannot afford to stay here.

    • “Well off” enough? Seriously? I pay less for a five-bedroom house in the ‘burbs than I would in DC for a 2 bedroom condo. I left DC mostly because I could no longer afford to live there.

  • Hell no! I live and work here because I’m a fighter for progressive ideas. The enemy of everything that I believe in shouldn’t chase me away, this travesty should make me fight harder. Sure, I felt sick about this, but I didn’t come to DC navel gaze, I came here to fight the good fight.

    • Good answer. I really don’t understand these people who claim they are moving. A new President who you might not like is a trigger for you to leave the country? Uh what? SMH man.

      • maxwell smart

        For a lot of people, the issue isn’t that they don’t like Trump, but rather that he has claimed he is going to strip them of their civil and human rights.

      • or/and their jobs (like me and my partner.) The country is so red it would be hard pressed to find somewhere more civil than DC, generally people here are respectful because they understand everyone has a job to do. Whereas in many areas of the country every idiot who watched the news once for 10 minutes wants to debate you despite literally not knowing what the senate majority leader’s job is.

        I don’t really want to leave, but I won’t have a job and its hard being away from family in the midwest. So, i’ll probably go native and REALLY fight for what I believe in in Ohio.

  • God, people are so dramatic. Not to mention 99% of the people who claim they are leaving the country are full of it and will stay right where there are. If you don’t want to be in this great country then by all means leave- good luck out there.

    PEOPLE make up the USA and your every day interactions and relationships make up your life- a President who you might not like doesn’t dictate those things. He won, get over it and give the dude a chance. In a year if things ain’t looking great maybe the conversation changes. But people protesting and burning American flags should be ashamed of themselves- “Yeah Lets Protest Democracy. Let’s burn the flag of the country who freely voted this president into office!!” I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. Please spare me you’re “im moving!” shtick because at the end of the day we all know you aren’t. Sorry to come off harsh.

    • Ugh, I don’t think you realize how unsafe some people feel with the rhetoric Trump and some of his supporters spew. Pence supports conversion therapy, and as a gay person that is scary as hell. I hope he isn’t able to overturn marriage equality, remove legal protections for LGBTQ, but he will try. Even if he isn’t successful, there could still be violence against LGBT, Muslims, and others.

      • Removing protections that exist for gay people won’t be hard at all – despite the marriage decision, we don’t have many federal protections and have none in most places in this country anyway – not against discrimination in jobs, housing, services, etc.

    • I largely agree with your sentiment, but the PEOPLE of the USA cast more votes for HRC, not Drumpf.

      • justinbc

        Well that and the fact that it’s the people that minority groups have to worry about a lot more than the one in charge.

    • How long until Federal workers have to sign a Trump loyalty oath? I promise you it’s coming. He’s a little man with a very fragile ego.
      Or how about minorities, gays, Muslims and Jews who need to fear being assaulted by the Red Hat goon squads? They’re out in force on social media – tons of sickening video evidence available for your viewing pleasure. And they will only get worse.
      Us? We’re thinking seriously of at least getting a German or Israeli passports together for my partner and her relatives. They can get either by-right. My Federal job is safe for now, as is her’s (private sector). I think we hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

  • Calm down, its not like were running out of Kale anytime soon!

  • The phrase is “tongue IN cheek”, not “tongue AND cheek”.

  • We were kind of on the fence about moving away (been in DC 10 years and ready for something different) and had decided to move out west before the election results. Needless to say, the election didn’t change our minds.

  • I work for the federal government. I can’t imagine walking into a building every day with his face at the door. Looking for jobs with non profits in other cities. Easier said than done.

  • Wonder if a lot of nice homes will come to market in the spring? I will be looking.

  • It’s prudent to consider options outside DC when you work for a non-military/defense agency that has already been threated by Trump. If your program(s) or job is cut, the same cuts will happen to your counterparts in the private sector, too. I wouldn’t leave out of fear, but to find a job, especially in a less expensive city.

  • I was once one of those people that said they would move if this actually happened – and no, not to Canada – I’d consider somewhere across the pond.
    Now that this has actually happened, I feel more empowered than ever before. I still love my city, and being the 2nd most liberal city in the US, I’m surrounded by others who will work hard to make a difference. Now is not the time to give up. Remember, when they go low, we go high, and right now the Country is at an extreme low point, so it’s up to us to go REALLY FUCKING HIGH. #strongertogether

  • I’m thinking of moving but not necessarily because because of Trump. I’m thinking of moving because I’m burned out on politics in general. The problem of course is as a lobbyist I’m pretty tied to this town and unsure how to transfer those skills elsewhere.

  • We may have to. My (foreign, Muslim) husband hasn’t yet completed his naturalization, and if they are – as they’ve said they want to – able to roll back marriage equality, he’ll potentially lose his immigration status.

    People who say that there’s too much drama and rhetoric about this outcome seem all too often to be the ones with very little to lose.

    • I think you hit the nail on the head.

    • justinbc

      White males were already far and away the most powerful demographic in this country prior to the election. With them being “empowered” by the results, it’s going to be a rough period for anyone who isn’t one.

    • To me the scariest part of all of this is the uncertainty, we don’t know how harsh it will be, when it will happen, and how it will affect us. I’m so sorry and I hope that it works out for you and your husband, I hope he gets naturalized asap and the existing marriage licenses don’t get retroactively revoked.

  • I’ll only be leaving if federal budgets are slashed so severely that it affects my job. But I’ve been here for almost 20 years, so I lived through eight years of a Republican presidency already, and it really doesn’t change things much.

    • Agree. Part of having a federal career is the ability to outlast whatever appointees come in. If you want to quit every time your party loses an election you’re not going to last.

  • I doubt it but I have been working on social and economic justice for over 20 years and right now I’m just exhausted.

  • In all honesty, there is a serious case he might force me to leave the country. If he undoes Obama’s Department of Education policies on student loan repayment programs (pay as you earn, IBR, public service forgiveness), then I won’t be able to afford my student loan repayments and will have to take a contracting gig abroad to be able to bring in more money.

    • at least you have that option! If he undoes those policies, I am well and truly fucked. I threw up in the shower on Wednesday morning when i thought about those policies being torn apart. I work at a non-profit that I love, doing a job I love and care about. But there is no way I could afford to do what I do without those Dept of Ed programs (IBR). If I saw no light at the end of the tunnel (in terms of public service loan forgiveness) I would probably throw myself in front of a train.

      • I understand that this is stressful. But come on, think about what you’re saying. “If I wasn’t able to do a job that I love and care about because it didn’t pay enough, I don’t know what I would do.” Sure you do. You’d find a job that paid more that you didn’t love as much, and that you maybe didn’t feel passionately about, just like a significant number of people already in the country, and world. Because that’s what grownups do – they tend to their responsibilities, even if they don’t love it all the time.

        • I don’t think you understand – I do not feel confident that I would be able to find a new job that DID pay enough – I owe somewhere in the neighborhood of $120K, and with interest it’s only going up…payments without the IBR would eat up more than half my salary. I’m not being dramatic. Tending to my responsibilities includes paying rent. I would have to move back in with my parents and /or hope to god that some for-profit would hire me. And very likely that either of those options (but particularly the latter) would have me contemplating death again.

          • “I’m not being dramatic. . . . I would have to move back in with my parents and /or hope to god that some for-profit would hire me. And very likely that either of those options (but particularly the latter) would have me contemplating death again.”
            Please reread this. You’re not being dramatic, but working for a for profit company would make you contemplate suicide. Come on.

          • This is one of the few issues he has said something concrete about, and it’s actually not that bad. He proposed a new program (presumably eliminating the other repayment programs) where everyone pays 12.5 percent of income and the rest is forgiven after 15 years. Who knows the likelihood of that passing or what it would mean for the existing public service forgiveness program, but at least he’s not talking about eliminating all income based programs or shouting about “pay what you owe!” etc like most other republicans do.

          • maxwell smart

            It does reduce the repayment period by 5 years, but at the cost of an additional 2.5% a year. For me, that’s an additional $175/month. That’s $175 that I won’t be spending on boosting the economy.

          • Thank you, DC_KT for your information – It’s better than nothing, I suppose, but jeez. And dcd – I suppose it would depend on what for-profit company it was but that’s assuming I could somehow land a job there. I was out of work a while ago for 8 months and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. And it wasn’t for lack of trying!

          • oh, and 12.5% of my income would almost double the payments I’m currently making, plus the interest. jesus.

          • I’m also concerned about PSLF, as well as some of my fed benefits. (I fully understand that these are luxurious concerns relative to others). I’m hoping that: 1) he burns out his political capitol by the time he gets to student loan reform 2) if he does get to it, that it doesn’t apply to those currently enrolled and/or is phased in or 3) he realizes he lost millenials badly and will need their vote to get relected. Also interesting to note that I think that 2017 is the first year that people will actually get their loans forgiven.

          • DC_KT I wonder if that would apply to private loans as well. Private student loans are the side of the coin that never get brought up.

    • maxwell smart

      Ugh… I had almost forgotten about this… to many things to be dismayed about. If I had to go back to Standard Repayment on my Student Loans… I don’t even want to think about.

      • OK, I should probably step away because I’m getting frustrated, but I have to say this. Compared to all the horrible things that posters (Blithe, Anonamom, wdc, Muscato, to name a few) have identified as potential worries (assault, stripping away civil rights, deportation, draconian limits on abortion, etc.), “I may have to pay back the money I borrowed” strikes me as pretty out of place.

        • Isn’t it possible that many of the people who are posting here about loan forgiveness are people who undertook these loans specifically with the plan of working in public service for 10 years and having them forgiven?
          Having to pay back the loans isn’t as dramatic as some of the other Trump-related outcomes that people have mentioned, but it’s certainly something significant, especially for people who are on tight budgets to begin with.

        • maxwell smart

          I’m not asking to be forgiven from the money I borrowed (despite the fact that Student Loan debt is the ONLY debt that can not be forgiven in any means, including bankruptcy and that we’ve bailed out banks, homeowners, and auto companies but have done nothing to help people get higher educations).

          It’s more about that 1: federal subsided loans provided lower and fixed interest rates and greater protection for default and temporary forgiveness than private loans which will garnish your paycheck to get paid regardless of situation and 2: federal forgiveness programs for people entering necessary but sadly low-paying social jobs helping to encourage people to enter into those much needed fields.

          Sure, it’s a lower concern than the already rampant racism and xenophobia that is sweeping the country. But it is a concern.

          • “I’m not asking to be forgiven from the money I borrowed ”
            “If I had to go back to Standard Repayment on my Student Loans… I don’t even want to think about.”
            I get being concerned about subsidized interest rates and filling socially valuable positions . . . but that isn’t what you said.

          • maxwell smart

            I am on Income Based Repayment, which offers me a SIGNIFICANTLY lower monthly payment and a longer term than the standard repayment plan, which is only 10 years. It’s a several hundred dollar a month difference. IBR is one of the programs potentially on the chopping block.

          • Thank you, textdoc and Maxwell for putting into words what I am incapable of right now.

        • It’s not the worst problem that’s going to result, agree, but for those of us who borrowed when interest rates were upwards of 5-8 percent or even more (mine are fixed at 6), we’re paying a lot more than “what we borrowed.” My balance is well above what I borrowed and I’ve been out for 15 years now. So the moralizing could stop. And yes, I’m not perfect, haven’t made tons of money, and had my loans in forbearance for a while because of it. So string me up now.

          • I have also gone into forebearance and default on my loans because at some points in my life things like eating or feeding my children were more important to me than having Sallie Mae off my back. It’s definitely not the end of the world. I’m not proud, I don’t excuse myself, and I certainly am [paying the price for it now, but it happens.
            I think what stings here is that your student loan, my student loan, all of our student loans were a personal choice. Particularly the amounts. I could have gone a lot farther in my education than I did and I chose not to largely due to money and not wanting to go hugely in debt. Not having a huge student loan payment allowed me to work in non-profits for years; in the nearly 15 years since I left full-time education, only 1.5 years has been spent working at for-profit companies. When my responsibilities became more than my non-profit check could handle, I moved to for-profit. Does it suck not working for a purpose? Do I miss it every day? Yep. But you know what genuinely sucks more? Being hungry.
            Being born black or Latino or gay is not a choice. The threat of rolling back Marriage Equality? Roe vs. Wade? Much more important, much more terrifying. It’s not that I don’t think the repeal of student loan reforms is a major deal, it’s just in the grand scheme of things, it’s a smaller part that affects people on a personal level versus the community level.

    • the terms of your loan are a contract between you and the lender and can’t be retroactively changed. they may be eliminated for future borrowers but once you sign a note the terms are binding.

      • maxwell smart

        Try telling that to Sallie Mae who found creative ways to shuffle my loans from one account to another so they could reamortize my loan balance by adding in the interest, making the balance higher and increasing my payments.

      • They get sold and bought all the time, with new terms that come along with that. It would absolutely be possible to change the kind of payment plan once it’s bought by another lender.

        • I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. a loan is a contract between two parties that can’t be modified without express consent of both parties. now, lenders may have tricky ways of talking you into changing the terms of your loan, but if you currently have an income-based-repayment loan it is not adjustable to the end of its term. Hopefully you didn’t study contract law or finance.

          • ok, you’re still wrong, but in a sense so was I. IBR is a government program that isn’t contractually linked to your loan. So, it can be cancelled whenever. However, my response to stands wrt terms of the loans. Someone can’t buy a loan from another bank and unilaterally adjust the actual terms of the loan. But, an IBR is not a loan term, its a federal subsidy program, which you’re right will go right down the toilet under Trump.

          • HaileUnlikely

            Not to beat this horse to death, but a lot of loans (yes, contracts) that in certain situations you basically can’t avoid signing (say, you really need some money) and don’t have any real ability to negotiate the terms (say, the lender is the U.S. government – good luck negotiating the terms) contain language that basically says that the lender can assign or sell the loan to somebody else and the assignee can change some specific terms (most commonly late fee, accelerated payment, those sorts of things). Sure, you can conceptualize signing such a loan as allowing yourself to be tricked into agreeing to those terms, but basically it’s a question of, “Well, do you want the money or not?”

    • they might change it for the future, but people who have already relied on it will get it. if they do eliminate it, which they won’t, expect a flood of lawsuits from all the doj lawyers with student loan debt who are using the program.

  • Strongly considering a move. Both I and the spouse work for the fed gov’t, her specifically in public diplomacy. We both take being a civil servant seriously. And I strongly believe that a strong civil service (more liberal leaning) can have a strong steadying force on all this. That being said, living in DC will be akin to living on Endor with the freaking death star above us.

    I hate the idea of giving up but I also want to be happy. Can one be happy with such miserable policies around us? Me, probably not. I am waking up pissed off and going to be pissed off. That is not good for me, the wife, or the dog!

    • Don’t watch so much news. I just keep a radio and when it’s too much, “click.” But it brings less stress.

  • I don’t think I will leave DC, but I was strongly inclined to buy a place sometime soon and now I’m not so sure.

    • Ditto on this. I feel like the value on homes will drop somewhat and I certainly don’t want to buy with the threat of a loss on my investment imminent.

      • Little reason to think that’s the case. If anything, an influx of Trump’s wealthy friends buying occasional homes in the area may very well give home prices here a bump. Especially in close-in suburbs.

        • maxwell smart

          Great. Just what we need… drive up real estate prices for the wealthy to have a 1 day a month home in DC.

  • Yes. The culture of the city is about to get a massive infusion of knuckle draggers. There are better places to live.

  • I am reminded of what David Remnick wrote in the New Yorker, in an essay entitled “An American Tragedy” —
    ” . . . Liberals will be admonished as smug, disconnected from suffering, as if so many Democratic voters were unacquainted with poverty, struggle, and misfortune. There is no reason to believe this palaver.”

    Before we go too far damning Democrats for their ignorance of, and insensitivity to, the suffering of downwardly mobile residents of drained small towns and rural areas, recall that it has the Republicans who have thwarted all attempts at the national level to deal with income inequality, raising the minimum wage, stimulating the economy, providing healthcare to everyone, reducing mass gun murder, fighting racial discrimination, and fundamentally addressing the significant problems facing the country. And yet, that party has deflected the blame to others and the Electoral College has given them the keys to the government.

  • It’s funny that you pose this question today. I’m visiting my family in Ohio right now, and my SIL joked that I should move to Switzerland (she’s a Democrat, so not a snarky response). I asked her why Switzerland, and she said she saw pictures from a friend’s vacation and it was really pretty. I then revealed that I almost applied for a job in Switzerland about 6 months ago, but when I found out how hard it would be to take my dog with me,* I decided not to. I was basically qualified for the job and would LOVE it (though I’m sure competition would be fierce, and they *did* prefer someone with French skills). So weird how that conversation went down.
    *My dog is a rescue, and had his tail docked before I got him. Probably as a puppy (I rescued him at about a year and a half old). While I could probably cobble together the documentation showing that I did not have his tail docked myself nor purposely get a dog with a docked tail outside of the country to circumvent their animal cruelty laws, the random first-person stories I read on the internet about how hard it was to get a docked/cropped dog into the country gave me a lot of pause. I didn’t want to apply for a job and spend a lot of effort pursuing it, only to have to say “I can’t” if the authorities denied my request for an exception to bring my dog with me. Judge me if you want, but I would absolutely not take a job in a foreign country if my dog couldn’t come.

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