Details on New Bar/Restaurant Coming to 11th and Park


I saw this on the CH listserv and thought it would be of great interest. It is from the owner – John Andrade:

“Located at 11th & Park, The Pint, as I’ve come to nick name it, will be 2 levels. The street level will be very much restaurant/bar similar in casualness to Commonwealth Gastro Pub with an open style kitchen. We’ll offer great food, a casual groove, 25 beers on draft and no bottles or cans, plentiful wines and yes, an outdoor seating area. Beers will be diverse including cask conditioned as well as the occasional gravity poured, firkin. There will be 2 “idiot boxes” since I do enjoy sports and I believe few things go better than quality beer while watching some football. Certainly not a sports bar, just some back ground.

The basement level will be equal in size and will have both a separate entrance and internal connection. The downstairs will have a more playful personality and will carry the name “The Joint Chiefs” while still serving the same food and beverages. There will be 4 8ft. billiard tables, to be rented by the hour, shuffle board, another bar and a spacious lounging area with the ability to section off for private party/receptions. A ping pong table top will be available for covering 1 billiard table for those interested.

Scheduled opening is based on 3DG’s renovation of the building but for now I’m hoping for spring of ’09.”

Sound good?

123 Comment

  • bring it on! and please god in heaven dont let dcdirewolf start posting about how this should be a kite store or dentist!!!


  • Sounds great!!!

  • Sounds fun!

    I just hope they regularly check the beers on draft. With 25, its highly likely that a few could get pretty funky before they empty. That happened to me once- it was the Great Boddingtons Disaster of ’01. I still shutter to think about it…

    Kind of funny that the owner has already nicknamed it, no? But maybe that’s for the best. My husband has already nicknamed Commonwealth “that gas place” because he, for whatever reason, if incapable of remembering the word “gastropub”. Hopefully that won’t catch on- couldn’t be good for business.

  • This is definitely good news. It sounds like it’s going to have a great vibe to it.

  • i think the building should be a seasonal store catering the whims and needs of hard core halloweeners or xmas junkies or mother’s day fanatics. there is a holiday every month, the store could rotate easily!

    this would serve the community better than good quality reasonably priced food and drink and fun.

    i mean who eats, drinks, or recreates?

  • SWEET — I can’t wait for it to open. I think the local businesses may be underestimating local workers as a market — perfect for after work happy hours/dinners

  • Wow – That sounds like a HUGE space! Hope they can keep it up.

  • For those wondering wtf a firkin is: Look here

    Months ago I read something about there being an eco tourist travel agency on the yet-to-be-built 2nd floor. Anyone else hear anything about that?

    Awesome that they’re not having any bottled beer, and the addition of cask conditioned and gravity poured beers will make me a regular. Oh liver – I hardly knew ye. Anyway – hope more pubs go the direction of eliminating bottles.

    I want to hear more about “Great Boddingtons Disaster of ‘01”.

  • Guess hypertexting isn’t allowed.
    Check out the wiki entry for firkin:
    Brits are so weird.

  • Very exciting. Seems like they have thought this through, have a good plan, lots of space and good ideas. The Olympics has me excited about some table tennis. Shuffle board and pool? Looks like we’ve hit the big time. All I need now is a deluxe apartment in the sky.

  • Yay! Full sized pool tables! I just wish they were coin operated king-of-the-hill style instead of pay by the hour.

  • Someone over on the CH Yahoo Board is already talking about organizing beer pong tourneys. I know most of you vehemently disagree with me on this, but I don’t think the neighborhood needs a frat house atmosphere. It serves a *very* small minority of the community. Wonderland serves that role quite well enough on its own. I expect that soon 11th Street will be overflowing on weekends with party-goers from Virginia, Maryland and other folks from outside the neighborhood that don’t care about the people who live here and act accordingly. It’s the Adams Morganization of Columbia Heights.

  • yay!!! billiards and beer!

  • Unlike some on this post, I welcome those from outside our neighborhood. There’s no way any of these establishments can survive on local dollars alone. I don’t understand the poo poo’ing of non-locals enjoying these places too when their $ are what helps to keep the establishments in our hood for us to enjoy!

  • i have an idea. we can make this neighborhood so crappy that no one wants to come here. that sounds like a plan.

    i mean, thats they way it was for years right?

  • DCDireWolf: with your frequently expressed, strident opinions, most of the time in stark opposition to anything that is planned, said or done in the neighborhood, why don’t you start your own blog instead of playing the troll and fomenting arguments everywhere? It’s so easy to do, even I have a crappy blog, and I’m sure you’re younger and more tech-savvy.

  • Direwolf:

    I don’t think the slope is quite that slippery just yet.

  • Very psyched, like everyone else. Hopefully construction will get going in earnest soon … such a pain to get anything done in this city, it seems incredibly easy to get a permit to build residential abominations like pop ups and hideous pre-fab houses that destroy neighborhood architectural character, but incredibly difficult to get any kind of attractive commercial renovation off the ground.

    One suggestion: how about a FOOSBALL TABLE????? None in the area, seems like a lot of pool tables, replacing one with a foos couldn’t hurt …

  • It doesn’t have to be crappy to not be like Adams Morgan. It can be very nice, and have thriving businesses that cater to all the diverse needs and desires of the community. Having a bunch of bars/eateries up and down 11th Street that attract one demographic doesn’t really create that atmosphere. It’s not this way or no way. There are other choices besides a strip of bars and boarded up buildings.

  • No Mr T. what DCdire needs to do is move to mount pleasant. problem solved. they are experts at keepinig that neighborhood stagnant. they have tons of dollar stores and laundry mats and even a dentist. virginians dont know about it because it isnt a metro stop and there is no reason to go there whatsoever.

  • DC Cry Wolf: 11th Street has a few blocks of commercial district, most of which are quiet, local non-VA appeal sort of places (included the proposed wine bar you so adamently oppose). I don’t see how bringing the grand total of large restaurant/bars to TWO will come close to attracting any critical mass of outsiders. Adams Morgan is about a mile of bar after bar after bar. This place will serve primarily local residents. Yes, there may be some upper middle class whites (aka the devil incarnate) among them, god forbid, but they will be local.

  • What are you talking about? I go to Mt. Pleasant on a regular basis. It’s a short walk and I love going in all the different kinds of stores like Boveda, the Dollar Store, the Bakery, getting ice cream at Dos Gringos, a beer at one of the restaurants, the Hardware store, a place to get a pupusa. It’s actually a pretty good, diverse set of businesses. I hope 11th Street can look like that rather than 18th Street in Adams Morgan, but it doesn’t seem to be headed that way. And every time I go there I see a lot of people hanging out, so there are certainly people who share my enjoyment of it. Mt. Pleasant is a great model, if I was able to afford it, I probably would have chose it over CH, but CH was cheaper and seemed to have a chance to end up funky and fun like Mt. P. Doesn’t POP have a blogger that covers Mt. P? He seems to like it.

  • adams morgan is also an excellent neighborhood save 4 hours on friday night and 4 hours on saturday night. the dollars that the virginians (who i think we can all agree suck) bring into the neighborhood allow for all the amenities that its residents enjoy the rest of the time.

  • dont feed the trolllls…..but i’m guilty of it as anyone.

    all i gotta say is thank god the King Troll of the CH Listserv hasn’t found this site yet.

  • i dont think anyone has a problem with the places that are on mtp. the problem is that when someone shows interest in one of the 10 or so vacant spaces they are chased out of town if they are pitching anything that serves alcohol or food that tastes good.

  • DC Direwolf – seems the plans for 11th street are more akin on Macomb street where 2 Amys is located vs Adams Morgan. True there are very different demographics, but the available commercial space is similar. Let’s make no mistake this is part of what gentrification is and that there is good and bad to the proess, in my opinon, its mostly good. Lets keep it rolling.

  • im sure the biggest troll on the ch listserve is dcdire under a different alias. I agree though that this blog is 100 percent pro gentrification because most all of us own here and want our houses to appreciate. that being said dcdire understands nothing about economics. you cant just open a kite store because you think its cute or fits in some utopian vision you have of a commercial strip from a rockwell painting. people would actually have to BUY kites you see. at a rate of about 50 a day for the store to pay rent. No that could work in a very small store in gtown perhaps. but not on 11street. you are unrealistic.

  • Steve, you may be right a la Macomb Street. And I think you are 100% right when you say this is part of gentrification. At the moment at least though, the gentrifiers are a small minority in a much larger community that will not be served in the least by the way 11th Street is being developed.

    And for those who think I’m “strident”. I wish we could just debate the development and stay away from personal attacks. I’m not a “troll”, I just have a different opinion than most on here on how the development should move forward. I assure you I’m a nice person with good intentions and obviously strong opinions. I comment on a variety of posts on this blog and others in a variety of ways, not just disagreement. I’m not trying to piss anyone off, just trying to have a debate. Me differing with you is not a reflection on either of our characters. Character shouldn’t even come into this anyway.

    Besides, a message forum with only one opinion is kinda pointless. It’s like a pep rally.

  • I am NOT that guy on the CH listserve on Yahoo. I post under DCDireWolf there too. But this doesn’t need to be personal.

  • I have a gentrification-related question. And I dont mean it in a contentious way. I am trying to understand. Is the unabashed desire for (primarily) food and drink establishments part of some unacknowledged checklist ? There is definitely a pattern to this whole thing. I mention this because -well, there is a pattern. Im not a hater. I know the reality of life here… $$$ Good luck to all… Like Tupac said- “I ain’t mad atcha”

  • plans?

    what plans?

    why are there plans for 11th st as a whole? there arent.

    why should there be? who gets to be the decider?

    its zoned commercial/mixed use.

    thats more planning than i’d prefer.

    and so now, those with entrepreneurial spirit and capital are making things happen.

    such is life.

    we could go to centrally planned economies, but you know, that didnt really work

  • like i said, i am not a hater… im merely looking at the consistent desire for certain types of businesses and their relationship to gentrification…. this is a money first society… to say otherwise would be a lie

  • Yeah, I think that’s what bothers me, I hate the fact that this is a money first society, and I’m always swimming upstream on that one.

  • It’s based on disposable income. Those with it want places to spend it in a leisurely way, e.g. food and booze and entertainment. Those without it want places that are useful, e.g. clinics, laundromats, and places to buy food and sundries. Generally speaking, it’s a crime to be broke in America.

  • true that, dc direwolf.

  • how about no one responds to mr wolf… bitchbitchbitch.. zzzzzzz

  • Gentrifying is good. There is nothing bad about it. Sure rents go up. That leaves you the choice of getting a better job, spending less, or moving. Hey that’s not the end of the world. If you are poor, it is very inefficient for you to live in an area where the amenities of the area are out of your reach.

    Consider the new cleaners that have opened up on Park Rd. G’town & Oxxo. And the one slated to open on 14th across from DC USA. Or the D’Vines wine store. Those are not meant for people of modest means. They are for people that can afford the level of service that they feel they provide. Why would a poor person want to continue living in a community where noone is catering to the needs of someone in their economic demographic?

  • oh, the be the martyr

  • “Why would a poor person want to continue living in a community where noone is catering to the needs of someone in their economic demographic?”

    Perhaps because they have lived in the neighborhood all their lives as did their parents and possibly grandparents? Because people don’t like to move. Because people form relationships based on their neighbors, schools, and relatives. Because moving often requires moving to a place that is unknown, filled with crime, far away from work and/or requires splitting up families and friends.

  • Wolf – I have to ask you a completely unrelated question. Is your name from a tragically hip song?

  • All else aside, I would share DCDireWolf’s aversion to any sort of beer pong. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed sinking a ball in a plastic cup of bad beer back in the day, but such things are meant for the sticky floors of college pads and frat houses. I hope that the Joint will quickly put any such intentions of befouling their ping pong table to bed. Efforts to pursue over the top drinking games will only heighten folks’ opposition to this and other bar/restaurant establishments in the future. Besides, who in their right mind is going to drop plastic balls in their firkin.

  • The last time we had this debate someone clearly pointed out the a plethora of new stores and restaurants have opened in CH that serve people of all income levels: Giant, Target, Marshall’s etc., plus also several restaurants as well like Pollo Campanero, Julia’s Empanada’s etc. There is absolutely no reason why everything in the neighborhood has to cater to only people with lower incomes, there just need to be options, and there are way more options now than there used to be (where did people get groceries 5 years ago? my friend who lived on Lamont in CH used to have to walk to the Safeway in Adams Morgan).

  • oh here we go again, lamenting the good ole days of crack wars and poverty and nothingness.

    gosh we all just wish it was the way it was when this neighborhood destroyed itself in purpose. hell, when the city set itself on fire. brilliant.

    ahh the good ole days

    all those reports of gangs of white gentrifying kids terrorizing bikers, or throwing rocks or robbing and stealing or shooting each other.

    come on people

    get real. its all about race and class. we can dance around it all you want but thats the truth. race and class.

  • I think I mentioned this in prior posts on the wine bar, I think the market is driving the development. The truth is that the disposable income is focused on people who want to quaf fine beligan brews (like Bud) or wine and eat gastro food. I suspect that as the neighborhood gentrifies and matures (assuming Fenty, Rhee, et all get the schools straighted out and we don’t have flight of young families seeking better schools) there will be a market for more family friendly eateries. These things evolve over time as market demands change. I liken this to ecological succession.

  • Perhaps because they have lived in the neighborhood all their lives as did their parents and possibly grandparents? Because people don’t like to move. Because people form relationships based on their neighbors, schools, and relatives. Because moving often requires moving to a place that is unknown, filled with crime, far away from work and/or requires splitting up families and friends.

    [Just because you lived somewhere for xx years does not give you the right. Nor does it make it sensible. I lived in Alabama ALL my life. I am no more entitled or compelled to live there than anyone else.
    If I want to live in G’town or AL, my wants and needs do no trump the desires of others who may have the disposable income to make it happen. ]

  • Dear lord, here we go again. Now I’m even skipping over other people’s comments back to DCwolf. Truly a sad state.

    All I can say is I’m “firkin” excited!
    Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week…

    Welcome to the hood, “The Pint”.

  • Well someone has to support Mr. Wolf… I don’t suppose that *one* more bar is a terrible thing. But I am bothered by the creeping “adolescence” of much DC development. Developers are clearly asking their 23-year old children what would be hip, and planning accordingly. Trust me, when you are 30, 40, or 50, you have a lot less need for Frat House beer pong and such. So I think Wolf is right in the sense that some of these gentrifying neighborhoods are becoming playgrounds for the post-college set (who move away as soon as Jr. reaches school age), rather than real communities that cater to all age (and demographic) groups. San Francisco, for example, has gentrifying neighborhoods, but they include art galleries, antique stores, bookstores, boutiques, and specialty retail. Why does DC just put in bars?

  • You have got to be kidding me.

    Please refer to ANY number of previous threads that detail tons of Community Centers, outreach facilities, spoken word art houses, thrift stores, bookstores, coffeehouses, dance centers, theaters etc. etc. etc.

  • PoP,
    Can we just create a universal link to a page that hosts all the thoughtful posts of NON-bars and all the great comments that people have offered about NON-bars. That way we can all save out typing and just paste the link in for these people. That would be sweet!

  • Nate – You and DDW are touching upon what I termed the bad part of gentrification. People are being priced out of the neighborhood. From a micro point of view, that’s bad for them. I hate to say it, but from a marco and market oriented view, it is good for the neighborhood in the big picture. I think this is where we get to the social morass that many long time residents of the area find themselves in. The place is changing fast and the past 30 – 40 years that saw the collapse of the family, schools and local government have left a great many of them without the tools to keep up. It’s sad, but what do you do? Does it make sense to limit grown and gentrification? To limit our opporunties and returns on our investments in the area? I suspect many of us moved here because we reject the suburbanization we grew up with and saw opportunity in an evolving community here in the Petworth area. How many would have moved here had it not been gentrifying? Not many I suspect.

  • Yay this is exciting. Every time I go to Red Rocks I always wonder about what is going in across the street. This place sounds awesome, I am tres excited.

  • DCDireWolf – has anyone ever told you to just move out of DC. If not, just move out of DC. You clearly have issues.

  • I think gentrification is great. As a renter I was affected by it. As a homeowner I am affected by it. I hate to see my property taxes increase. I love to see the new development.

    There is plenty of affordable housing in DC. Let’s not lose sight of that. Large swaths of DC are affordable. Just not in CH. What DC lacks is affordable and safe housing. MPD can do alot to improve upon making it safer.

    If you are paying less than $800 for rent in CH for anything more than a basement apt, then you should not expect the same amenities as your neighbor in the $500K condo. Sadly, in life and on these boards, there are people that feel entitled to what others of more means have. .

  • I think people that live in a neighborhood should have a reasonable expectation that they will not be economically forced out of that neighborhood. I think that people who live in a neighborhood have a right to want businesses that cater to them and not to people who don’t live there. Look at Wonderland on a Saturday night. It’s full of twenty-somethings mostly from places not all that close to CH. While that might raise property values and increase the businesss revenues of other bars to come, it doesn’t do squat for the quality of life of the majority of residents in the neighborhood. Property values can go up with smart, diverse development (such as mentioned above in SF). We don’t need 11th Street to turn into a 20 something, affluent, playground. That benefits the few and not the many.

  • Oh, and my name is from a Grateful Dead song.

  • Ha! I second the motion for the universal link. That would take away all the satisfaction that these people seem to get from irritating us happier folk into typing long thought out defenses. Instead we could just post CLICK HERE.

  • I get no satisfaction from irritating anyone. It is not my intent to irritate anyone. I’m simply offering a different perspective.

  • DireWolf isn’t a troll and he isn’t insane, what’s the use of another “gastropub” bar? That’s not appealing to a lot of people regardless how long they’ve lived in the neighborhood. I’m not saying it ought to be a combination kite store and baby formula warehouse, but why not a decent ethnic restaurant? I’m not ambitious, I’ll settle for the basics, Greek, (southern or northern) Indian, Thai, (real) Mexican, how about a decent Italian that isn’t a pizza shop? … zheesh, in a part of the city with laughably little to offer as far decent food choices why, oh why, would we need another spot serving overpriced pub crud. What? The 3 dozen other places within the zipcode serving bleu cheese burgers with garlic fries, and that “special” beer-battered cod for $$$ ain’t enough for you? At some point these places are no better than Starbucks and McDonalds. They may not be owned by some faceless and bland corporation, and they may make a great scene for moneyed halfwits to hang out and meet other halfwits, but they suffer from the same bland and done-to-death concept. Have an original idea, for christsakes. Not everybody in this town is 25 with more hairgel than sense.

  • Here’s an idea. Put your money where your mouth is and open one of what you like. These places exist because people patronize them. If you don’t want to, then thats your prerogative. I patronize them because I enjoy them and if that makes me “a 25yr old with more hairgel than sense” then I guess that sucks for you, cause I’m fine with it.

  • If 25 yr ollds with more hairgel make the owner money, then great. That is the beauty of the market.

  • If usefulness was what we were after, you would be calling for Wal-Mart from the rooftops. But, having read enough of your posts here and elsewhere, I’m pretty sure you’d oppose a Wal-Mart tooth and nail, as you do Target, which is a pretty good proxy for food and sundries. The basics are available here, so that can’t be your argument – the greatest variety at the lowest cost is already in residence. What you really want is more publicly funded and administered services and to move available commercial resources to non-commercial uses (or lower-than-optimal commercial uses). If it’s private commercial space, let the market figure it out. It’ll be based on money first, of course, but I’ll take that any day over regulation by DC’s bureaucrats.

  • DDW – now that I think of it, I really think you would be happier in Takoma Park. I don’t say that to be mean, but I think that kind of neighborhood is a bettwr fit for you.

  • I am, uh, over 40, and I welcome a spot if it has good food and drink. And I enjoy playing ping pong. I am looking forward to this new place being a grand spot to visit. They will be a doing us a huge favor in occupying a too-long neglected corner, and the additional tax revenue will help all residents lobby for additional city services. For those of us lucky enough to have purchased our homes several years or decades ago, the benefits of the development are substantial. The neighbors down the street just pulled off a $400,000 gain, and in a down market. Depending on their age and health, that is a healthy little retirement boost, with some left for inheritance. I do hope the arguments for the coffee shop on 11th weren’t so negative. Shouldn’t we focus our energy on helping the latin restaurant pick up its business (you know, updated menu, open and inviting premises, open kitchen)? They don’t even have to raise prices substantially, I suspect, as the volume and reputation increase would do wonders.

  • Good for you, and if you don’t care to know DireWolf’s or my opinion then don’t read it. I know I didn’t read most of these comments for that reason. But there are more than a few people who aren’t very excited about more pointless “gastropubs” popping up, and correct me if I’m wrong, but PoP was asking for people’s opinions and he didn’t specify “only if you agree with JnDC”. While I realize that the popular opinion on this particular blog is that the more “upscale” bars for rich twenty-somethings that open up in CH and Petworth the better, you need to realize not everyone agrees. C’est la vie.

  • the reason bars and food are coming now are because there arent enough. and there werent ANY

    there have been dentists and doctors and clinics and AA centers and freaking medical centers and groceries and cheap eats and cheap clothes and strip clubs and liquor shops and ethnic food everywhere you turn and on and on and on…

    what there WASNT was eat/drink places that cater to the 20-50 crowd with disposable income.

    the trolls dont make real arguments you see, they make straw arguments. ones that you can not win because they attack something that did not does not exist.

    i know i know, its all these ‘new people’ that are bringing this change.

    well, yeah

    tell me.

    what kind of emotional swamp must this place have been in the 80’s when people were so scared for their lives and possessions that they put bars on the doors and windows? i’ve even seen bars on the roof hatch in some houses! or bars on the dormer windows in the attic that didnt even really open!

    poor people in concentrations = crime. its fact.

    now that CH is a mixed income neighborhood, less crime = fact.

    mixed income neighborhood = eat/drink places for those with money = fact.

    get over it and GAWD I’M SICK OF THIS CONVERSATION!!!

  • “Don’t murder me. I beg of you, don’t murder me. Please don’t murder me.”

    I always suspected that DireWolf identified with that particular ditty. Nobody ever likes the devil’s advocate, so you gotta expect to get jumped on when you try to consistently dissent in the midst of an affinity group.

    In any case, whether you like it or not, DC can really benefit from the frat-boy types moving in and throwing down 50 bucks on drinks for a few hours on Friday and Saturday nights. And if they move here from Virginia even better. The public schools could really benefit if we had a majority citizenship of middle and higher income people paying income tax and not taking anything out of that particular service.

    Anyone who bought a house in Adams Morgan 15 years ago or more might be complaining about the crowds and drunks peeing on their daisies, but they could always cash in and move to Petworth if they wanted. They probably think, like a lot of Orange and Red Line people I know, that this neighborhood is just too “iffy” for them. Kinda hypocritical.

    Populations move. I imagine that most of Petworth’s current “long-term residents” were pretty unwelcome as newcomers in the 50s and 60s too.

  • anonneemooo,

    Just play the game here…it’s fun! All the debating back and forth here is pretty classic stuff, but the reality is it doesn’t change squat. Places for the hair gel set are coming and no one is going to stop them. If folks really wanted to do something there would be petitions, protests, demonstrations. The city council would be haveing hearings on stopping the gentrifiers. None of that is happening. Gentrificaiton, which would be better called redevelopment is going on unceasingly. Money is bing made as long as that is happening it will continue. From an enviornmental perspective I hope it keeps happening. The more we can recycle the existing building stock in areas with mass transit the better. It’s just fun to argue about this with DDW and Odentex. They are smart guys with genuine concerns, which should be given some consideration. I hope that the direct thier concerns toward decision makers and not just blogs…not that PoP is a bad thing.

  • well you’d be surprised how many of those with real influence on these issues read these blogs.

  • got to agree with odentex that another gastropub is not exactly exciting news. why do we need another one? go down the street to f’in commonwealth.

    and anonneemoooo all that disposable income is fine. use it if you have it. but with gentrification also comes the “whitening” of a neighborhood. and the fact is that soon, it will not be a ‘mixed’ income neighborhood. it will be a neighborhood filled with people with disposable incomes to go and spend at the countless gastropubs and nothing else. you lose diversity…isn’t the fact that there will be another
    ‘gastropub” a clue to that?

  • saf

    “what kind of emotional swamp must this place have been in the 80’s when people were so scared for their lives and possessions that they put bars on the doors and windows?”

    Ok, anon-a-something, I didn’t live in Petworth in the 80s (we were in Shaw, Adams Morgan, and Mount Pleasant), but I didn’t miss it by much – we bought our house in February 1990. And the only bars are on the basement windows.

    As for being scared for their lives and possessions, well… we have an alarm system now. We installed it in November 2006. We had never needed one before, but the rising crime rate, and several burglaries in a short period of time convinced us we needed one.

  • Isn’t a gastro pub a place where the Romans would go and eat until they were full then barf it up? Wait that was a vomitarium.

  • DCDireWolf said:
    “I think that people who live in a neighborhood have a right to want businesses that cater to them and not to people who don’t live there.”

    Uhm, you mean like an upscale chocolate shop?! Isn’t that what you wanted to open awhile back, and were looking for locations? You can’t get any more gentrifying than that! Why not personally open a “free gym” or a community center as you’ve advocated for ad nauseum? Such hypocrisy.

    And if you ever do open that chocolate shop, I’ll be stopping in to make sure your employees are unionized and getting full healthcare and other benefits.

  • anon 1:32-

    gentrification does tend to mean whitening. i can’t help it that white people tend to be more educated and make more money. its life.

    i’m not even arguing about the relative merits of gastropubs or wine bars.

    i’m addressing the actual argument that we dont ‘need’ more eat/drink places and that we ‘need’ community focused commercial groups.

  • The more I hear about 11th Street, the more I think, 11th Street is to Columbia Heights what 17th Street is to Dupont Circle.

  • Saf:

    sorry that the crime seems to have risen to an unacceptable level circa 2006. However, its incredibly unaware to even make a comparison to what Columbia Height, Petworth, Shaw, LeDroit Park were like in the 70’s and 80’s. Pure unadulterated crime hell. Think New Jack City. Clifton Terrace? The most notorious murder site in the city. Known gangs rampaging through the neighborhood, druggies on the corners, abandoned houses filled with crach heads…

    hell, abandoned houses! houses that had such little value that people just LEFT THEIR HOUSE FOR NOTHING.

    can you imagine that????

  • saf

    Anonnnn-whatsit: you will note that I lived in Shaw in the 80s, so I do not need to imagine. I also lived in Adams Morgan and Mt Pleasant in the 80s. And I disagree with you. Yes, things were bad and times were hard. No, things were not as bad as you are painting.

  • you have got to be kidding me anonneemooo. that’s life? the income and educational gap, has more to do with the system and i hope you are not suggesting that white people are somehow superior. the gap in income and education is not something that should be just accepted as something unavoidable. one aspect is the ‘gentrification.’ gentrification that makes good education and opportunities hard to come by for people who cannot afford it. yes, making the community better and safer is great. but it is a question of ‘for whom’ is it making the neighborhood better.

  • PoP

    I would not bother with this type of question of the day anymore. It has been debated beyond belief. There is nothing left to say

  • “i can’t help it that white people tend to be more educated and make more money. its life.”

    That’s not “life.” Thats contemporary American society. Anyone who wants to can work toward changing it.

  • anonneemooos: I don’t know what a “commuity focused commercial group” is, i’m just wishing for a decent $5 enchilada lunch special, a gyro plate, some pho, or a quality tandoori buffet. I’m simply expressing my opinion that yet another $20 burger and $8 draft beer option isn’t interesting to me. I think it’s great that there are 35 places within walking distance people can get safe pub food and beer, and I personally don’t care if there turns out to be hundreds of such places, but I don’t see what’s so offensive about lamenting the fact that the nation’s capital has rather limited dining options for those not willing to take out a loan or travel halfway across the city (or worse yet, to Virginia). A few of us are just saying we’d personally prefer to see something else open up, since PoP asked. That’s all.

  • Anon 2:08. I don’t thing anonneemoo is suggesting that white people are superior. I also don’t think the gentrification will make good eduction harder to comeby. In fact, I hope that the gentrifiers who bring much needed tax revenue, demand better schools, in the hope they can send thier children to them. If the city fails to do anything, they will loose those residents to the burbs.

  • Odentex – there are plenty of places to get payday loans for those dinners out!

  • Prince Of Petworth

    I certainly think the newly released details of the bar was worth mentioning. I know I’m excited about it. Having said that I find some of the debate going on, if a bit repetitive at times, fascinating. I think there are some good points all around. As for the trolls, they do exist but I don’t think on this thread. I’m pretty good at knocking them out when the poke around here. For the record the only question I asked here was if it “sounds good?” The question of the day can be found above about community policing. While I get frustrated sometimes reading people’s opinions that I don’t agree with I have come to appreciate some of their points. But like I said, I’m still psyched for this place to open and think it bodes well for the overall health and resurgence of 11th Street.

  • This wasn’t the question of the day.

  • “In all things that are purely social, we can be as separate as the fingers, yet one as the hand in all things essential to mutual progress.”
    — Booker T. Washington

  • I am troubled (yet again ) by Nate’s clinical hatred of poor people, and his hard core-one-sided affair with capitalism/ and those with big dollars. You make it sound as if those of more modest means are not entitled to a decent life-and that their presence is a blot on the windshield of the rich(er). I mean, you are certainly living in the right country. Cause this is a money before people kind of place.

  • Fonzy,
    That is an excerpt from my favorite speech. Ah man more people in the neighborhood should read that speech.


  • Anonymous,
    “I am troubled (yet again ) by Nate’s clinical hatred of poor people, and his hard core-one-sided affair with capitalism/ and those with big dollars. You make it sound as if those of more modest means are not entitled to a decent life-and that their presence is a blot on the windshield of the rich(er). I mean, you are certainly living in the right country. Cause this is a money before people kind of place.”

    I have never said anything of the sort. I do think that poor people are likely better suited in a neighborhood that more fits them economically and socially. Poor people need to be near services that they are able to afford. What good does it do for a poor person to live in a neighborhood of high priced food options? High priced cleaners. High priced beer and wine stores.

    Now you would have me to believe that more lower priced options should be in place for him. I would counter by saying that most people of modest means should eat the majority of their meals at home. I live in Petworth. Would love dearly to be able to afford a condo in CH. I can’t. Now I don’t feel anyway offended. Or entitled. Nor should a certain group of people that have the fortune of being born while living in the housing projects at 14th & Columbia Rd.

    I don’t hate poor people. I grew up dirt poor. But I never was taught to expect people to “give” me something. The world owes you nothing.

  • ElevenIrving – oops, but my point was why bother with this dicusssion any more. Really

  • I’m a bit baffled by Odentex. Does he really think we should be determining what restaurants may enter the neighborhood by cuisine? He laments another pub food establishment. Andrade’s the one buy (or leasing) this establishment. Who are we to tell him he can’t serve pub food he must either serve something ethnic or abandon the project? Sure Andrade can absorb feedback and may want to incorporate that to establish greater repeat customers from the neighborhood – but to deny a restaurant from opening based on their menu is asinine. What’s next? Do you want to make businesses conform to the type of furniture and decor you deem appropriate before they are allowed to open?

    Besides – while there may not be much ethnic food on 11th street aren’t their plenty of latin options on 14th street?

  • 4th & I: I’m expressing an opinion about what I’d like to see happen and how, sitting here imagining yet another expensive pub makes my teeth ache, nothing more, and tough noogies if you don’t agree. I fail to see how that’s baffling. 😉

    P.S. What’s “latin” food? Communion wafers and $2 red wine?

  • dire wolf i know you like mountpls. as stated here. but when was the last time something brand new interesting and risky was built there ? it’s dying on the vine. what a shame for mtp that the entrepuneurs look around and go to 11th st. colh.or pw. take a breath and enjoy the vibrancy and exciting possibilties of your neighborhood. i would trade with you anytime.

  • Ethnic food on 11th: Acuario, Rinconsito I, the chinese place. Even with the two new proposed new places — which probably deserve not to be judged until they actually at least post menus — it is at best a 3-3 tie between the kind of businesses DC Cry Wolf likes and what most of the posters on this thread are excited about. personally, I’ll take, anyday, someone with a great track record like Andrade over a place like Acuario, which buys off the cops and blacks out its windows so it can serve intoxicated patrons who piss on the street and have sex in the back alley (I’ve seen both with my own eyes) and build illegal structures in violation of code, yet refuse to take them down.

  • Didn’t Mt P just get Tonic not too long ago?

    And I’ve seen plenty of Wonderland customers pee in the alley too. The Problem is bars, not particular bars. It’s another reason we don’t need more of them.

    I’m happy, very happy, that people and businesses want to locate in CH. I’d like to see a better variety of businesses and ones that cater to the needs/desires of the majority of the neighborhood, not the few people with enough money and youthful energy to want to spend a hundred bucks on beer and ping pong or overpriced wine.

    Just because a handful of blog commenters would love another bar doesn’t mean it’s good for the community as a whole or desired by the majority of people who live in the community.

  • this makes the point, there is all this stuff here already. the news making establishments are the ones that are new.

  • anonneemooo: you and New2CH point out that there is already plenty of “stuff” in the neighborhood. Too true. What I am suggesting is that I hope we get a bunch of new stuff that ain’t like the old stuff, and that includes old stuff like Looking Glass, Wonderland, Commonwealth, etc. Sure there are a bazillion Salvadorian spots, chicken spots, and bad chinese take outs, but there is hardly a vibrant array of choices up Georgia way (thank GOD for D.F. coming up north), and this new place doesn’t sound like it’ll be offering anything new (from my perspective). That’s my take. I am happy that you are all happy to have another bar to go to where you can get substantially the same grub and beer you can get down the block.

    But when asked above “does this sound good?” by our host PoP, I have to say, for me, “meh.”

  • Well first, so far as I know of, there are no lounges with pool tables and such in the viscinity, so that in and of itself is new and cool. As for food, I agree that I want lots of variety: I am dying for the sushi place to open in Highland, I’d kill for good Indian, wish to hell Rumberos would up it’s quality so I could say there was good tapas, etc. I don’t think there is any indication that the CUISINE will mirror CW Gastropub; in fact I seriously doubt Andrade plans to serve British pub food. He’s talking about the decor / atmosphere. Let’s at least hold judgment on the food until we get a sense of what will be on the menu and what prices will be like.

  • the bottom line here is that dcdire as I have mentioned several times before is an idealist. What you will never ever ever ever see in any of his posts are actual ideas of stores to open or ways to make his little wet dream vision of a corridor viable from a financial standpoint. I guess he did blurt out that he thought a kite store would be just swell. but nobody in their right mind would be so dumb as to invest their hard earned savings into something like that which would fail in days. Until you can come up with a neighborhood serving business that can succeed or at least break even you can spew out your posts til you are blue in the face but it wont change anything. if you spent half as much time actually trying to help people or put together some sort of busniess proposal that wouldnt land you in the poor house, as you do posting lame brain comment farts about kite stores or laundry mats (as if there is really a shortage of laundry mats) you might actually make a difference.

  • Another question for Dcdire and friends. When is it ok for a commercial strip to reflect its demographics. As in the case of Mt Pleasant St that keeps gettinig brought up. MTP isnt gentrifyinig. ITS BEEN GENTRIFIED. The commercial strip if it reflected the resident demographics would support an organic grocery. a wine bar. a sushi place. yada yada yada. But instead most of its residents which would and should be able to patronize such establishments have to head out of their own neighborhood to find such places. But this is ok because they are white and have disposable income? somoeone from out of town would assume mt pleasant was a sketchy neighborhood by the looks of the strip. If you havent figured it out yet i live in mount p and think it sucks that if i want to grab some food and a beer my only options are marx, blah, tonic, blah, radius, disgusting, and a slew of lets be honest mediocre salvadorian places. To see a vacant storefront and hear rumors of interest from well known restraunt developers only to hear they were turned off by the climate in the neighborhood and then hear mcdonalds is looking to move in makes me sick. lets just rename the neighborhood Mt Laundry and get shuttles to shuttle in low income people who live two neighborhoods over to do their laundry and we can hop on the shuttles and take them to their neighborhoods to enjoy a glass of wine and some cured friggin meats? anyone seeing how crazy it all is. residents should have zero say in what goes into a commericial space and let the market do as it pleases. if it is zoned for it then its zoned for it. im never reading this blog again. i need a hobby

  • i dunno, nice decor, good food, variety of beers. I think we had a place like that – it was called Temperance Hall, and it failed. People are talking about this like its a risk-free guaranteed winner, and development/gentrification is an unstoppable juggernaut. It’s not. The fact is that when people keep building the same kind of thing despite the failure of a similar business, that is classic late-bubble behavior. 11th Street is not exactly Georgia Ave, but it’s not too far off.

    But hey, he’s got the money, so he can build whatever he wants. ABC won’t really fuss too much, as in the end it will only be the second bar on that part of 11th.

    And seriously, can people shut the f**k up about how DCDW and every other anti-development poster is a “troll,” or how you are “so sick of this discussion.” If you don’t want someone to disagree with you, go have a discussion with your bathroom mirror, and if you don’t want to participate in or read this discussion, go read something else. You make it sound like you have some kind of legal obligation to read every comment posted on the site. Please, can I have permission not to be bored by the same things you are?

  • Is “DCDireWolf” an alias for “William Jordan”? Sure sounds like it with all the complaining and negativity.

  • St, dcdw has all the right in the world to make his posts and the people telling him what an idiot he is have every right to do so as well. you are a hypocrit if you think otherwise. That being said it doesn’t sound like dcdw is anti development. only anti bar. at first I thought he was anti yuppie but then the only two genious ideas he has put forth are a Fine Choclatier and a Kite Store? WOW. What is this Gtown? Im sure the laundrymat crowd he pretends to be defending are foaming at the mouth for the chance to pay 20 bucks for chocolate.

  • They are not telling him he is an idiot, they are telling everyone else that he is a troll and no one should engage with him, or telling everyone on all sides to shut up because the topic is boring. I.e., trying to shut down a conversation. Not quite the same. Glad you think that dcdw has all the right in the world to make his posts. The people I was addressing in my earlier comment don’t agree.

    That said, I hope this place opens and thrives. I don’t like Looking Glass lounge, and I’m just not cool enough for Wonderland. (Sigh) I miss Temperance Hall. I didn’t go there enough, I guess.

  • Prince Of Petworth

    From John Andrade (there was some problems posting so I’ve posted this message for him).

    WOW! I make one lil post, go canoing for 2 days, come back and POP has blown up with a mayhem of discussions.

    I may be a bit tardy on this discussion but for those who still care, just a couple of points of clarification:

    1. The Meridian Pint will not support, cater to or endorse “beer pong”. I’ve never understood when someone asks me to “chug” a beer with them. Generally I’ve just bought the beer and would prefer to enjoy it. Don’t get me wrong, on a hot summer day after a long bike or run, few beverages go down faster than a Modelo Especial in a can.

    I just prefer to savor the ones that cost me $5-$7.

    2. Adams Morgan presently has approximately 60 alcohol licenses. I see no way that 11th Street could ever come even close to that type of weekend mayhem.

    3. Adams Morgan is a great neighborhood of ethnically diverse businesses. As that diversity has shifted to more “drunk watering holes”, things have changed. Have you also noticed, though, that over time many of those same bars are now closed and gone? The nightlife has a way of working itself out…to some extent. That, however, does not take away from the greatness of that neighborhood. Have you checked Asylum’s brunch lately? Awesome.

    4. Mr. Wolf, you said, “It’s based on disposable income. Those with it want places to spend it in a leisurely way, e.g. food and booze and entertainment. Those without it want places that are useful, e.g. clinics, laundromats, and places to buy food and sundries.” The reality is that whether you have disposable income or not, you will still do what is necessary to enjoy life…in YOUR own way. Some folks don’t have health insurance, a 401k or any kinds of investments but still enjoy going out to 5 Guys for a burger or Julias Empanadas or Ritas. It makes ’em feel good or maybe they just don’t wanna cook that day. Most all people in the city enjoy, at least on occasion, going out to eat or drink or what ever makes ’em happy. Why should I, a local business owner, or as some prefer to label me, an alcohol peddler, be targeted as the problem or the blite? I provide a service just like the dry cleaner or the copy store or the theater company. I am confident that if you were better off financially, we would likely see you out and about more often spending that hard earned money. Just because that is not your position, please don’t blame the ills of our community on the businessmen that work so hard to provide a positive contribution or the consumers who enjoy it.

    5. The quality of The Pints beers will be paramount and line cleaning and beer rotation will be done regularly.


    John Andrade

    The Meridian Pint

    [email protected]

  • Thanks John, Now would you poooolease open a place on mt pleasant street. PLEASE.

  • I’m not trying to blame the ills of society on small business owners. What I’m trying to say is that the neighborhood doesn’t need another establishment that sells $5-$7 beers and other drinks. As was mentioned, those without the disposable incomes are spending what they have on more affordable food for the most part.

    People should be able of course to enjoy life however they want and can afford, but that said, the continual opening of the same kind of business catering to the same minority of residents doesn’t really rank as a positive to me. Sure, it’s a positive to the handful of folks around here who will love the place, but it’s just another problem for everyone else. One less business that is useful to them and one more business that reminds them how powerless they are to the few with the dollars.

    It’s saddening that seemingly some folks can’t see things from the perspective of the majority of people in the 11th Street and Columbia Heights area that will never set foot in the new bars.

  • ok now dcdw IS a troll and ill tell you why. he just keeps making the same claim. others refute it as is done in debates. then dcdw restates the same claim. without addressing any of the rebuttles. like for instance he could talk about how HIS OWN ideas for a fine chocolate store and kite store would in anyway benifet the low income people along 11th street he pretends to be looking out for. Several commenters have asked him to address these ideas and he is mum. (perhaps he feels stupid for suggestinig them and wishes people would forget he had) or he could come out and say “ok ok those were dumb ideas on my part but you know what would be a good idea….” but he has no ideas. he is not interested in a real debate as people who come to his defense claim he is. so he is in fact just a run of the mill troll. Whats worse is that he uses low income people as a pawn in his game to rile up residents who have every right to have a place in their neighborhood to drink a beer and play some pool.

  • I don’t think some folks are reading the whole thread or the prior thread on this topic. I made a list of about a dozen businesses that would serve the community better than another bar. Everyone seems to focus on only one of those, the kite thing. You don’t like kites? Fine, focus on one of the other 12 if you bothered to even read them before you accuse me of not articulating other ideas. A kite store, or any of the other businesses I mentioned, would serve a larger portion, a majority, of the residents of the neighborhood. The service offered are not as expensive and are used by a lot of people, across income, race and age lines. Another upscale bar will serve the small minority of mostly 20 or 30 somethings with a lot of disposable income. A community here that is already well served with upscale bars and restaurants all over the place around here.

    I’ve responded to all of the arguments that have been thrown out, time and time and time again. Go back and actually read. If repeated arguments are the basis for someone being a troll, than just about everyone on here is a troll. I’m not using anyone as a pawn in anything, I’m simply voicing my opinion.

  • I also don’t like the sense of entitlement, that people have some sort of “right” to a place to drink microbrews and play pool. Nobody has a “right” to those things, they are luxuries. However, even if someone did have a right to that, they could walk a few blocks and visit the several other places that provide the service already.

  • I don’t give a crap what DCDW thinks or what his politics, or anything else about him. I live on 11th and Euclid, and I personally welcome John’s bar. I also plan, with my wife and kiddie, to frequent his establishment, just like I frequent Red Rocks and (infrequently) Wonderland. John welcome! Off track question, John you a Portugeee by any chance?

  • DCDW – if you really think a kite store will serve more in the community than a restaurant/bar, then YOU are delusional. Have you seen Redrocks/Wonderland/Heights/Pete’s? They are always crowded with patrons – not people chugging pitchers and shots either, people enjoying a meal. Just because you feel they are too expensive, doesn’t mean others do too, hence they are always crowded.

  • and dcdw has convienently dodged the whole fact that he wanted to open a high end chocolatier. any comment on that dcdw? i fear that you are totally out of touch. the strip you invision would cater largly to virginians wanting to take a saturday drive into the city to puruse kites and choclates and would not serve low income people in anyway. if you arent a troll you are a lame brain or fraud with alterior motives that have nothing to do with low income residents. all the other ideas you had can be found walking distance from 11th street as well (dentist, community centesr, cheap goods,etc) in abundance. yet you use that justification to say another bar isnt needed? you just arent well thought out and you should take a couple days off from posting until you formulate some better ideas.

  • dcdire, just some ideas to fill your time.

    1- volunteer at marthas table and make some of your high end choclates for its patrons

    2- start a non profit that distributes free kites to low income residents of columbia heights.
    (also might want to include some cab fare so they can go somewhere there is room to fly them)

  • DCDW is a bit of a luddite, and he’s dreaming if he thinks that property gets distributed by highest usefulness to the majority, rather than maximum profit to the landowner. A nice idea, but the world’s going to work the way it works.

    But Jesus, Anonymous, you are just a smug a**hole who needs a spelling lesson. Does it really cause you physical pain to be contradicted? Relax, chief, you’ll get your precious bar, and you’re just going to have to live with the fact that not everyone sees it as an unmitigated good.

  • I like the free kites for kids ideas. A lot. I’m seriously going to look into making that work somehow.

    The chocolate gig isn’t mine to speak about other than helping someone find space for it, so I’m not going to speak about it out other than that, I gave my word on it.

    I’m sorry that having a different opinion from some folks here makes them upset enough to react the way they have.

    I think I’ve said all that needs to be said on this topic, I’ll stop typing and start acting. If I knock on your door with a petition, don’t shoot.


  • attacking someones spelling in comment threads… Not the oldest trick in the book but the lamest to be sure. Also I think “Luddite” is supposed to be capped. wouldnt normally point that out but you seem to be a stickler…

  • you are welcome for the ideas. neither was meant to be sarcastic but I admit I WAS trying to point out you can make a bigger difference removing your ass from the computer chair and putting your time where your mouth is. Have p.o.p. post about it when you set up the kites for kids gig. Ill be the first to donate.

  • re: Luddite – ha! fair enough, I deserved that. As for the lamest trick in the book, it’s pretty bad, but maybe comes second to labeling anyone you disagree with a troll.

    Well, with DCDW decamping to circulate petitions, I suppose I’ll go too. Good luck, Anonymous; maybe you can find some poor kids to laugh at for not having enough money to easily access open play space. That should keep you busy.

  • Again, you don’t have to be socially responsible critter like DCDW to be unthrilled with the prospect of yet another expensive cookie-cutter ‘pub’ coming to the neighborhood. I spend plenty of time scratching my head when I plan to go out to get a bite (without trekking across the city), and find myself engaging in “wouldn’t it be nice if…” At some point this bar scene in CH and Petworth will become as ridiculous as a Starbucks on every corner. I’m not suggesting the money men behind these projects build DCDW’s dream combination kite store and indigent samba training facility, but how about something interesting and different? Again, PoP’s original question was “does this sound good?”

    To me, this sounds boring. I’m sure it will be a huge success, but not with any of my money. That’s all I’m sayin’.

  • Ah, the last two sentences were too strong. If everyone was held accountable for the full implications of their snark on the internet, we’d all be hellbound. So, my apologize for that last shot, it was over the line, I think.

  • St. I know you feel burnt, and you should. but nowhere in any post was I laughing at anyone other than dcdw. Furthermore. I can all but gaurantee you that I, as a life long dc resident, have done much more charity for this town and its children than you or dcdw will ever do. You on the other hand only want to whine. I can find time in my schedual to both do charity work AND enjoy a delicious pint. give it a try and you might forget about the stick up your ass

  • Whoa there ST and Anonyhoo! To quote Rodney King: “Can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?…It’s just not right. It’s not right.”

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